My Goldwing has a reduced trail triple tree, therefore not real good for riding without the sidecar. Could I get a leading link front end, and adjust the trail for with and without the sidesar?Of not, are there other feasible alternatives?
The old BMW leading links had two settings for that very purpose.
My Unit LL front fork can be adjusted by sliding the upper shock mounts up or down on the rear down tube, changing the trail.
Originally written by gregbenner on 1/17/2008 8:16 PM
My Goldwing has a reduced trail triple tree, therefore not real good for riding without the sidecar. Could I get a leading link front end, and adjust the trail for with and without the sidesar?Of not, are there other feasible alternatives?
Probably the most popular leading link is 'Unit' in this country. I would suggest talking to them. If you do go with Unit you may want to try and ride a bike that has one of their leading links on it. They do have additional holes that adjust trail but speaking to them specifically is the best policy. There has been some controversy on whether these holes were actually designed to adjust trail or not. The horese's mouth is the place to ask.
Some have adjustable shock mounts on the fork tubes as Bob Mentioned. This will reduce trail somewhat but also raises and lowers the front end and can get the approach angle of the swingarm out of wack if one is not attentive to it. The adjustable shock mouts used in conjunction with th eadditional pivot point holes makes for more overasll tuning possibilities.
Some of us have built leading links as well. A custom one is also an alternative but costs are possibly higher. Dauntless builds one but I am not sure what bikes they do them for.
When the schedule permits I want to do another one soon for my personal bike, an R100R. It will have an infinate trail adjustment(within reason of course)by use of a machined pinch block system. The last one we did had a rotating swingarm pivot point support that worked well but was a little bit more labor intensive to change than it shoudl have been.
Trail figures vary with off the shelf leading links and are not usually published. Some sidecarists like more trail than others. Myself, I cannot stand a rig that has the trail reduced to the point that you can't feel the road any longer. Others tolerate this just fine.
Claude, re: your suggestion to ride one.... would you expect it to handle differently?Would you build one for a Wing, or are they more difficult than other bikes?greg
FYI: My mid 90's EZS front end has two mounting holes for the swingarm. If memory serves, installation instructions (what little there was) did note to use the forward hole (more trail) without a sidecar, rearward hole with. I've never changed from the rear holes as sidecar has never been off. Don't know on latest EZS conversions as they have priced me out. Luckly, my 94 K1100LT/EZS still gets right on down the road. Danny
Greg I have to ask Why the Rake Kit?
I have been riding my '01 Wing with the OEM Tripple Tree for 6 years both with and without the HAck bolted up. With the minimal trail of the GL1800 there isn't really any need to reduce it more.
One thing that can and should be done with a Sidecar on the 1800 is to have Heavy Duty Springs on front and back and probably extra spacers with the front springs to get the Normal travel.
If you have the OEM Tripple Tree put back on one trick would be to use the Tube Extenders that came with the EZ-Steer to kick out the front just a little that will help with the Hack bolted on and still be rideable without.
As far as the Unit Forks I was told by a Dealer that they arn't adjustable. I'm not sure about that but due to their stand on the issue I decided against paying out the big $$$$ just to make my bike a Sidecar Only rig.
At some point in the future I will likely build my own Links for my 1800 and use a smaller diameter 16" wheel so that there will be enough room between the links swingarm and engine to allow proper set back for 2-Wheel operation. That distance between the engine and the swingarm is the limiting factor with a Earls or Mid Leading Link for use in 2-Wheel mode.
In the mean time I am looking for affordable 16" wheels and brake setup so that I can swap between a Car Tire on the front and M/C tire to be able to go back and forth easly like I do now with 3 sets of OEM wheels and tires to suit the season and 2-Wheel mode.
Jerry
Greg wrote:
>>Claude, re: your suggestion to ride one.... would you expect it to handle differently?Would you build one for a Wing, or are they more difficult than other bikes?greg<<
Greg,
It does no t seem common for providers of triple tree conversions or leading links to provide trail figures.
I would recomend that if you like the feel of your present conversion then see if you can find out what the trail is now. Then if you do opt to go with a leading link see if you can get one that gives you the same trail or close to it.
In my post I mentioned that I do not care for trail being reduced so much that you lose a sense of the road feel, so to speak. Others can run and be happy with less trail than me but that is their preference.
If you want to talk about it my number is at the link below.
What does that mean- "lose road feel"?
Originally written by Uncle Ernie on 1/19/2008 11:17 PM
What does that mean- "lose road feel"?
Probably not the right terminolgy. When trail gets reduced to a certain point there is very little feedback to the driver. The steering is almost too easy. Some tolerate this very well and some do not.
Hello
The second set of holes on the Unit L/L forks are part of the construction process (for jigging)I will probably be seeing the directors of Unit next Sunday so can ask at the time regarding sliding the upper mounts and just buy how much.
Regards
Barry
Originally written by Threewheelsuk on 1/20/2008 2:02 PM
HelloThe second set of holes on the Unit L/L forks are part of the construction process (for jigging)I will probably be seeing the directors of Unit next Sunday so can ask at the time regarding sliding the upper mounts and just buy how much.RegardsBarry
Barry, I would appreciate that. I did send them an E mail a couple days ago as well.greg
Originally written by Threewheelsuk on 1/20/2008 4:02 PM
Hello
The second set of holes on the Unit L/L forks are part of the construction process (for jigging)I will probably be seeing the directors of Unit next Sunday so can ask at the time regarding sliding the upper mounts and just buy how much.
Regards
Barry
Great BARRY! Please ask about the holes for a confirmation on them. Finally we will get the confusion cleared up I hope.
Sorry we keep missing one another on Yayhoo messeger...lol
there is no reason a LL set could not be used with a stock trail setting
other than a clearence problem with the front of the bike
i always put 3 sets of hole in the LL i make just to have some adjustability
and i would not hesitate to put another pivot point on an existing LL
there were some bikes that had a factory LL that were set up as 2 wheeler
bmw and dwk ??? (or something like that was a dirtbike)
i think you will find that moving the shock mounts up and down the tube will change the ride height but the change is trail is so miniscual its hardly worth getting a wrench out
perhaps a road racer might get some benefit but the sidecarist probably would not even notice the change
as for the unit LL the exrtas may be for jigging but ther is no reason they couldnt be used as a pivot long as there is still adequate clearence
stace
Stacy,
Folks have used the other holes on Unit leading links to play with trail. It has been a question for a while on whether this is recomended by the manufacturer or not. I suppose that is the question.
As far as solo bikes having a leading link that is nothing new at all as you mentioned. BMW had them for a long time. Greeves, the hot bike in motorcross years ago, ran a leading link. In fact technically the Honda Dreams ran leading links also as did many scooters over the years.
You are totally right on moving the shock mounts up and down on the tubes. When doing this the main concern is to opbtain the best ride height and swingarm angle on a given machine. Trail changes will be very small when mounts are moved. If we tried to focus on changing the trail with this adjustment on the fork tube at the expense of swingarm angles and ride heights we would no doubt create quite a mess...lol.
We have expeimented with a round pivot mounting point that had 12 holes in it to rotate in such a way as to change trail and also a sliding slotted pinch block on the swingarm that held the pivot bearing to adjust trail. Both systmes work well. The concern with these types of adjustments is one of liability that arises when it gets into the hands of someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing. Reduced trail when it gets to a certain point can cause major problesm on a solo bike.
The idea that BMW had with one hole for solo and one hole for hack use made a lot of sense.
More than one person has built a leading link not knowing how much trail they wanted or how much actual trail they would end up with. Sounds funny but true. Two cases I know of were of people who built a leading link. Both although different came out looking beautiful. When asked what the trail was neither knew. When asked how they worked one ended up taking it off and the other said he could not keep up with the steering when on the road. That one added a damper to calm HIM down and is still trying to get it to work. I think both of them ended up with less that 1" of trail and one coudl have even been down to 0 static trail. Not a good thing.
