Sure would like to see such data you refer to - might be relevant - but this is exactly what we have been saying since day one for the 15 inch size. Where is the source data located? Source references? WE HAVE ASKED FOR SUCH REFERENCES SINCE DAY ONE. You never produce - just procrastonate.
Originally written by hackellis on 7/22/2006 10:54 PM
A bit of a side note. The tire engineer that I spoke too explained car suspension, brakes, tires etc... He showed me studies on tire sizes and what happens when you purchase tires that are not within the auto/truck manufactures recommendations for the vehicle. The stresses, performance, braking suffer exponentially when the wrong size is installed. I am sure the same is for motorcycles and sidecars. Given those facts and that I don't have the expertise or smarts to make that call, the car tires came off of my bike. Not willing to put my life on the line just yet.
I don't think he has the information you want. More than likley he is running mouth with NO proof just big talk to try and sound like he knows what he is talking about. ALL BS
Ron in Co
Contact the Tire and Rim Association regarding car tires for motorcycles or the use of tires other than what is recommended by the vehicle manufacture. You can also contact any of the big tire manufactures.
One cannot deny the fact that all manufactures recommend against the use of car tires for motorcycles.
How much more proof does one need?
PS. I don't goat into mockery of another person, especially over the internet! It is silly!
hackellis - we are NOT mocking you - just calling your bluff! Specifically, the special data you claim your tire specialist has made available to you that no one else has ever seen regarding this point you made. I have been in touch with the Tire & Rim Association and they have no knowledge of that those tests you claim of exponential wear. If they exist then that we want to know about them. Just tell us who your source material is. None of the tire manufacturers have given any data like you are saying. You are truly unbelieveable. Where can we find this data?
I'm not as nice as the others on this list. I think you have your head resting on your hips not your sholders as the rest do. Why don't you just admit you don't know a thing about what you are talking
Ron in Co
If you want to debate this more contack me this is getting fun
Ron,
What is your position regarding this subject? All I see is juvenal attacks without any substance. You can contribute to the discussion if you are aware of any new facts that would help.
Originally written by hackellis on 7/22/2006 10:54 PM
The tire engineer .....showed me studies on tire sizes and what happens when you purchase tires that are not within the auto/truck manufactures recommendations for the vehicle. The stresses, performance, braking suffer exponentially when the wrong size is installed..
This is exactly what we have been waiting for. Just show us these studies. Give us these to read for ourselves so we may become knowlegeable. Or is this just another poof of smoke. By the way, I am, by training a scientist and accept primary source documents only - not fables. Such as the study you claim your tire engineer showed you, or did he? If there was in fact such a study then you can identify it.
What has been expressed by those with real experience on this thread has been done from pretty much accepted practice in the sidecar world from years of input and experience. When it comes down to it we are all technically wrong if anyone wants to split hairs. Very few motorcycle manufacturers will say okay to the installation of a sidecar at all. No tire manufaturer will say it is okay to put a car tire on a motorcyle either. Duh....this thread was all about what has been done and what is not advised to be done. What we have seen here is a new sidecarist arguing with people who have been around a while about trying to prove a point about mounting a specific size car tire on a cycle wheel and then turning around and saying, after the fact, that it should not be done for another reason. The whole point from this person was made and then remade from his viewpoints that are based on no real experiences other than his own in the short time he has been around this stuff. Anyone can look around all they want until they find someone to agree with them and then call it right. Does this make it right ? No. Too bad that some simply refuse to see the points that some experienced sidecarists and even some in the industry have been trying to make here and why.
MR ELLIS my point is car tires on a 15" motorcycle is a no no.Some of us on this list have a lot of years and miles to base our replys on.I have 60 years of rideing most of them on a rig, I do NOT know it all and can STILL learn from others. Also I do not clame to have all the ansers, but you try to make us think you do. I am no longer going to waste my time talking to a wall
Ron Campbell
Sidecar builder and designer
I understand an appreciate your positions. You are correct that I don't have the years of experience as a result of age. But I am learning. I personally find that this post is one of the more positive and informative on this site regarding the choice of installation and use of a car tire. A lively discussion regarding a topic is usually more informative than everyone quoting the party line.
From a newbies perspective a site that has everyone in agreement and does not embrace new ideas usually is dull and boring and usually is not relevant.
I am proud of our discussion and the information regarding car tires. It challenged the status quo, but what is wrong with that? All of us are resistant to change and are most comfortable with what we know. The unknown is scary if we look at it with closed eyes. Embrace change it is exhilarating.
The status quo on the application of car tires on sidecar rigs has remained unchanged the past thirty years. It has withstood the test of time in spite of those who have blown in the wind from time to time. What was said to be good then remains as good and solid advice today.
Fit auto rims for 15 inch tires because of the deliberate mis-match in rim sizes in that size. That has always been true since the 1970s and perhaps beyond. That was when the first 165SR15 tire explosions were brought to our attention during fitment onto 15" MC rims (w/ photos).
All other sizes have identical rim sizes for auto and MC rims.
The status quo on the "World being flat" has remained unchanged the past thirty years. It has withstood the test of time in spite of those who have blown in the wind from time to time. What was said to be good then remains as good and solid advice today.
Hal,
I can't believe that you said this?
You are both crazy!!
Two things this thread has done.
1) It has gone for the record of th emost posts in one thread on this forum.
2) I use a fair amount of 165r15 tires when doing wheel conversions for mostly BMWs. This is done with an automotive wheel and an adaptor plate. With some 165s in stock most all the time the next time I get a chance to try one on a 15" motorcycle wheel I just may do so. The results will not change my stance on it but it is a curiosity to me now to see what happens. Keep in mind that this in no way means it is an accepted or wise practice. If you see a mushroom cloud over central Pa sometime soon you'll know what happened 🙂
Hackellis - WHEN will you quite stop misquoting those who you do not agree with? Again, you fail completely to comprehend these posts. They have not changed. You have been invited to go back and study the old Sidecarists but refuse to do so. Nothing has changed.
To summarize:
All sizes of rims - except 15 inch - have identical rim sizes for MC and for auto tires. Cases of fitting 16 inch auto tires onto 16 inch MC rims, and 18 inch auto tires onto 18 inch MC rims abound. 17 inch??
The auto rim for the 15 inch is about 1/8 inch smaller than the 15 inch MC rim. Several cases of exposions during fitment of the larger sizes from 145SR15 thru 165SR15 have been reported.
DO not fit a auto tire onto a MC rim in the 15 inch size - If you wish to use a 15 inch auto tire then use an auto rim - either laced or machined or cast or bolted using an adaptor plate.
Not at all recommended - but a few have installed a small 125SR15 or 135SR15 tire onto a 15 inch rim which can be installed with care at a low pressure (40 to 45 psi). No case of any exposion has yet been reported during fitment. Again, because some have done so is no recomendation. Just FYI.
Originally written by hackellis on 7/24/2006 6:31 PM7
The status quo on the "World being flat" has remained unchanged the past thirty years. .....
Hal,
I can't believe that you said this?
