It seems to me knowing what goes into building most of these hacks that they are way overpriced, and when you say something about being disabled well the price goes way up. Used well most people think they should get what they paid ten years ago for an old beat up one which is not going to happen, and if it has Harley wrote on it you might as well forget
it. I just find it hard to believe that people will pay what some of these things sell for, oh well I must still be living in the past.
Don't like the prices? Just build your own.--RG
I used to get 5 gallons of gas for a dollar in 1946.
I bought my first house for $3,600.00 in 1953.
I paid 13 cents a gallon for gas in Oakland in 1955.
I sold a 1952 MG TD for $425.00 in 1964.
I paid $3,250.00 for a 425 horsepower SS Chevelle Malibu in 1966.
I sold a 1958 Corvette with hardtop for $1,950.00 in 1972.
I bought my wife a new 4 cylinder Honda Accord for 25,000.00 in 2004.
Yes, times do change, don't they?
Off topic, but my first car was an MGA Coupe I bought for $350 and thought I was geting away with murder when I sold it for $500. 'Course, that was just after Alonzo Q Treadwell invented the tire modification that was later named after him- now shortened and used generically as "tread".
On topic, if you're talking about Steibs, I sure do agree. And everybody talks about wanting one until you put a perfect one up for sale at half price and nevermind... now you got ME going.
This is one of the reasons we introduced the new streched Kenna at only $2495 with Universal mounts.
With this sidecar you get a hand laid fiberglass body, padded carpet on the floor, nice high quality tonneau cover, Tail lights, Turn signals, nice seat and for an extra $500 you can have a brembo disk brake. Or for $3495 you can have the two seat version which has a standard brembo brake.(some sidecar companies do not offer lights or a brake even as options)
The frame of the sidecar is made out of stout 1 3/4 inch tubing and even has a place to plug in a trailer hitch. The swing arm pivots on a 1 inch shaft on tapered bearings as does the hub. And for suspention it runs a Progressive brand shock.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
www.dauntlessmotors.com
You all are telling me that no one in the USA can build a good basic sidecar complete and sell them for around 1200 to 1500 bucks? I don't buy that, when velorex ships them over the pond and sells them for 2200 new and ural sells for around 1100 why can't one made here in the USA be priced more competitively look over my spelling
Hey 3rd,
The URAL base price is $2,645.00 now without a W/shield.
Times do change, even for the Russians.
The guys in ohio still have them advertised for 1199.oo
Those aren't Urals, they're Dneprs. I own one. and most American consumers would demand a thousand dollars worth of improvements, rewelds, and clean up before they would buy one. It's a great sidecar. but the welds are rough and have gaps, the body has numerous dents and dings when delivered, and the pin striping is done freehand. Mine has three or four deep runs that weren't even wiped off, they were just ignored. Don't get me wrong, I like my sidecar, but if this was in a showroom someplace all prettied up, it would cost a great deal more.
Originally written by 3rd wheel on 8/4/2005 3:12 PM
It seems to me knowing what goes into building most of these hacks QUOTE]
How much material@ what price?
How much labor?
How much overhead/advertising etc?
How much for profit?I think you need to spend some time at a fab shop, say one that just makes basic trailers, to see what goes into makeing something in "real time".
Lets start with the dnepr yes they may be a little rough but in 99% of the cases folks going to paint them to match their own bike anyway so what is the big deal about the paint!
Now how much for material Oh around 5 to 8 hundred bucks would be in line for the most part the thing of it is wholesale material is around half what consumer retail is so the more you build the cheaper the price!
Labor well most shops I know of pay between 7 to 10 bucks an hour if the work hands are lucky!
Overhead well if you went out and bought all the tools and a building and paid the power bill etc, then only built one car the price would be way high but, the more you build the less cost there is in each unit
Profit This is the biggy, like an old man that used to run a country store around here said, he made 1% profit if he paid a dollar he sold it for two, that is 1%? So it is very logical to say most builders have the old mans idea on profit
Now working in a fab shop I have spent the last 25 years in production based industry and I know for fact that products can be made and sold cheaper than the consumer can build his own and still maintain a 35 to 40 percent profit margin, so 2500.00 is getting real close to the top end of that scale but when you see these hacks priced at 8 grand and above now that is just pure robbery!
Well....you are probably correct in your assessments if you don't have to consider volumn, shipping, dealer margins and the low volumn of sales.
You are not far from the Hannigan factory. Why don't you take a ride over there and watch the operation and look at he investment of money, time and the cost of the plant. It'll be an interesting experience. The tooling, the molds, jigs and materials they have to have on hand plus the cost of full time employees are daunting.
When you ride, look around you and see how many rigs you see. Not many. I have put over 26K miles on my R90/6/Ural in 2 1/2 years traveling all over: Texas,NM,OK,AZ,Ms,TN,VA,WV,MO,ARK,Mexico,KS and I don't recall seeing more than four other rigs outside of rallies. There doesn't seem to be alarge market out there. To set up and build one and two at a time isn't a production line activity that can lower costs to what you may consider to be an acceptable selling price.
Just shipping.....it cost me $540 to crate and ship my used Ural from Conn. to Ft Worth and that was the cheapest I could find.
Yes, I agree that the cost of rigs are high so I will try to suck in as many bikers into the fold as I can so they will provide volumn in hopes of bringing down costs.
A while back I was in town at a sevice station fueling up my rig and a friend pulled in to fuel up his boat and truck. He looked over the rig and asked me about price. I told him what the cost was to buy the bike, car and sending them to be put together by a guru. His comment was "Wow" that was lot just to drive a sidecar rig. I looked at his $10,000 dollar boat,$4500 big hp engine, color matched boat and trailer and $40,000 pickup to pull it with. My thought was that's a lot of money to catch fish. I looked at my rig that probably cost about 15% of his rig and thought about the giggles of kids and grownups riding in the car....about riding the mountains of Colorado and New Mexico, the deserts of NM,TX and Arizona....the sounds and smells of Mexico....riding to and from rallies in NM,KS,WV,MO,ARK....the hundreds of people that I have talked to a rest stops, sevice stations, parks and a hundred other places about traveling in my travels in this old bike and sidecar, seeing that look they all have of wishing they could come with me.
Yep....they are expensive in some ways, but that rig was dirt cheap considering what I have gained and experienced. In hindsight, it would have been worth twice or three times what I paid.
Oh well, I have to get back to planning my trip up the Natchez Trace to Nashville and back.
Originally written by 3rd wheel on 8/8/2005 7:33 AM
Labor well most shops I know of pay between 7 to 10 bucks an hour if the work hands are lucky!
7 to 10 dollars an hour? WalMart pays better than that. The welding shop in town estimated $225. to build a trailer hitch for my Dnepr! The parts were less than $50, the rest was labor.
Heck, the body shop quoted $1250 to paint just the sidecar body and fender dark blue. And that was with me sandblasting it and bringing them only the parts ready for priming. I guess I wish I lived where you do.
It sounds to me that people just want 1950's prices,
the big question is are you will to take 1950's pay?
it's only money, you can't take it with you in the end
fender
Hey 3rd,
Sounds like you are our best bet for the next (Cheap) sidecar manufacturer over there behind the sun, where labor and materials and overhead and infrastructure are close to free.
Over here in the real world (the left coast) we can't even get a sidecar shipped to your area on a truck for much less than $650.00 US. Ten years ago we could buy a new Sputnik in Maine and have it delivered to inside our shop in northwest Washington for that price.
Once again, times do change. Drop a nickel in the phone and give me a call so we can discuss this further. LOL
It's all good,
Lonnie
