Hello all,
Does anyone know if there were changes to the Harley sidecars and/or mounts between 2004 and 2005-2006? I've been considering some later models and possibly a new one. I've been told that the new ones are for 2005 and 2006 and presumably 2007 and so on. It's possible that they made some changes of which I'm not aware.
If anyone knows about this, I'd like to know. Thanks in advance.
Happy Trails.
at some point after 2000 the third bolt hole on the frame disappeared and you now have to have a two hole rear mount. 2007 bikes have a different frame and engine so the right front lower mount is completely different and the rear right side mount is completely different. the brake cylinder reservour is now completely different. from 2004~ to present you have to use a different rear brake pedal as well. i kept my 2004 hd car and got a 2007 bike - it was cheaper to just buy a whole new mount kit for the 2007 and leave the 2004 kit on the bike i traded in.
basically any combination of 99 to 2005 car & bike will interchange [other than a few combinations of rear mount] 2006 have a differnet sound system and from 2007 on you need a 2007 mount kit.
Yes, thanks for the response. I've been talking with a salesman from the local HD dealer and have disccovered many of their "secrets". The way HD markets their sidecars is really sort of mystical. I called five difrerent dealers and got five different MSRP values from each one.
I also just picked up the HD Sidecar Models service manual, P/N 99485-06, and have discovered the changes that you mention, save for the 2007's which as you say, are completely different yet again.
I'm probably just going to buy a new TLE from the dealer so that I can get everything to fit at once. I prefer the TLE myself as we are not all that much interested in the differences offered by the TLE/Ultra and the price is quite a bit higher the the TLE/U.
I'm curious, do you know whether all of the correct mounts and connection parts come WITH the sidecars from HD in the crate? They say that they do, but it's hard to find definitive information about Harley sidecars.
Thanks for your response in advance.
gnm109
Sacramento County, California
i got my 2004 new in the crate about a year ago & it came with ALL the parts in the crate to do the job [well, to put it on my 2000]. the sidecar is bolted to the crate floor & then there are three boxes of parts bolted to the floor of the crate - very complete & comprehensive. [it got it for 5400 in the crate, was ordered in 04 by a guy who never picked it up] - if you buy a hd sidcar used figure 900 for the box of parts - its about 16" on a side and 8" high and is about 30lb. about a hundred little metal parts plus a seven castings. the steer damper only comes in the boxed sidecar - or as parts, it is not in the attachement kit. if you order it new sidecar in the crate you will get it too.
be warned, i have ALL the needed tools including the lift in my heated and cooled garage & this is my third hd sidcar since 84 & it takes me about 10 hours to put the sidecar mounting kit on a bike & then about 45 mins to put the sidecar on after that, plus a hour to dial in the toe-in & leanout. its a LOT of work. there is only ONE model of harley that has it all on it and that is a ultra that is ordered from the factory WITH a ultra sidecar. they even have a specific vin series.
most dealers are simply CLUELESS as to hd sidecars save yourself some time and go in the shop and ask for a harley cert mech who has put one on and talk to him, the shop i use has a guy who has done 5 - its best if you know more than the sales man does. its best to find a dealer that will let you talk to the order rep directly [ie hand you the phone] give them the vin of the bike its going to go on and then when it comes it will all be exactly right.
my 07 will haul me and my wife with cruise on at 85 one hand on the bar with no pull either way - its really nice once its set up properly. i use the helmet intercom and have heated suits for my wife and i. i purchased the ultra harness and switch module and made my own very small dash so she can plug in her helmet, heat, ipod & game boy and off we go.. she has 5 bad disks and we can ride all day with the sidecar and she never gets hurt - 15 mins on the bike and she will be in pain for three weeks. i also use a police solo seat on the bike.. next up is a raked tree. the new 140 rear tires handle really really well unless you push it really hard & then it sort of squirms out a bit..
good luck
to
Thank you very much for you comprehensive reply! I really appreciate it. The salesman believes, as I do and as you have just pointed out, that the parts necessary are included in a crated sidecar deal. It's just that he has not been able to verify that with the factory. I will nail that down today.
I've already ordered a black TLE from my local dealer and it's going to be delivered sometime in December, the date is yet to be determined but I know it will be in December.
It sounds like you have a TLE also, rather than a TLE/Ultra, is that correct? One thing I didn't like about the TLE/Ultra is that large radio dash hanging down over the passenger's legs. Buying the cables sounds like a smart thing to do.
I'm also curious how the 88" bike pulls. It sounds like it does OK. I presume that you had the standard 2004 gearing on your last bike? (3.15:1 overall)
Thanks again for any further responses.
Regards, gnm109
if you want speakers then the ultra is the way to go.. but if you use the intercom system [it mystifies me why folks who never wear a helmet pay the big bux to get a ultra and not use the intercom - its the big item that you are paying for....]
you can make a small dash and put the cable and switch unit in it. my dash is 2.25" high and 10" wide and shaped the same as factory with the factory faceplate and socket and switches
its a very spendy cable. however
on a older than 06 bike you can just reroute the headset cable over to the right rear crash bar and plug in - that is what i did before. i had a 2000 95 with the se cleaner and stock other than that & it pulled fine. the reason i traded is that it reached 41000 miles and needed a new rear belt, & a set of timing chain shoes. but it ran just fine - no issues. the 2007 is a bit faster, uses a small amount less gas & the ox sensors let it adjust to the load better
the 06 and newer radios have a SEPERATE internal cir for the sidecar [read the wire diag very closely & you will see that there are pins on the 06/07 ultra radio labled SC] - with a 06 or newer radio i would definetly purchase the cable & swith box and install that.. for older id just move the wires around so you can plug in, the vol is on the right where the passenger can reach it.
as a aside i run with a police air ride seat, i found i could install the tourpak forward detachable solo mount using 4 ea 1/2" spacers and set the tourpak on the rear holes of the forward mount & it fits perfectly. for a 05 & newer you would need to retain the rear speaker boxs to use the buttons, but on my 07 since there is a seperate SC cir on the radio i just removed the rear boxes and my wife can do full control of the radio from the sc. she can even answer the cell phone from there...
later
to
Very good! I see how you handled it. Yeah, really, the only thing we would like is to use the intercomm and have Wife isten in on radio/cb, intercom from the bike.
I'll connect an extension cable from the bike headset to her headset in the sidecar.
Whle we're talking, I wonder how you handled the extra Bank Angle Sensor Switch issue? I know the later bikes use an add-on Bank Angle sensor on a plug in cable. Apparently this is of different sensitivity for sidecar use. Harley warns in their manual that without changing the Bank Angle Sensor, the bike could shut the engine down on a hard right turn. I'd like to use the cable correctly.
Also, I thnk the cable is part of the connection kit that comes with the sidecar.
I noticed that it requires the use of their "Harley Digital Technician Tool" to set the Bank Angle Sensoor switch (add-on) for sidecar use. Did you do that? How much do they charge for that? I do all of my own work and it bothers me to spend anything with the dealer at $90 per hour!
Hope to hear from you again on this. I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. The dealers sure don't know all of this stuff, do they?
Regards,
gnm109
some years bikes need the bank angle kit
and if the bike has the security system it needs to be changed.
its my understanding that the programing on the old bikes is 45$. its a plug in the cable and run the program - takes about 15mins - i belive there is some method to do it with the signal switches as well, but...
in my case the 07 sidecar manual is not out [on backorder] so they plugged it into the hd network for free and discovered i do not need a download - if i add security i need a download and that would cost 45$
on the 2000 its not needed at all - its some years inbetween that need it & yes it came in the crate with the 2004 sidecar. so i KNOW that the cable and kit need installing on a 2004.
to
Thanks again for your assistance. It sounds like you know what's happening with HD sidecars. It's really funny the way that they market them. They need to spend a little time and do some advertising, too. Ha.
I heard recently that HD is going to team up with Lehman to sell HD's with Lehman trikes under the HD brand name. While I have no dislike of trikes and Lehman is a good brand, you would think they would push something like their sidecars, which they already have going.
Regards,
gnm109
Harley (like the rest of the motorcycle industry) follows the bouncing ball in their marketing strategy. What's trendy and in is what sells.
ie: Fat rear tires, 6 speed transmissions, Bling, exotic wheels and paint jobs, now ridiculously priced trike conversions. For Sports bikes they bought Beull's company.
What the ExGens, Baby boomers and Motorcycle "Reality" show viewers want is where the buck is.
Lonnie
All too true as to marketing strategy, my friend. Also Harley learned a bitter lesson in the dark days when they couldn't even get their dealers to take bikes from the factory. Now, they're pushing what sells and only that.
While you and I and many others love sidecars, Harley just sort of bumbles along....they make them but they don't spend a lot of time talking about them.
Regards,
gnm109
gnm109 just fyi I have just picked up a new 2007 eg police fleet with a tle sidecar, what a bad experience. The thing drives like a truck with bad tires, the new rear brake pedal is so close to the floor board that I can't get my foot under it. The right rear saddle bag does not open all the way any more. One of the worst things is that the 103 ci comes with an oil cooler that they removed to put on the car and in just a short run in cool weather I noticed a big increase in the heat of the engine. I hope I can get it worked out cause right now I think I made a mistake buying a Harley car. ps the dealer is kind of clueless and the factory is like talking to a block of cement.
In the new Hack'd mag there is an interview with Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars. I'm thinking you'd do well to get in touch with him. www.texassidecars.com or 903-640-2149. Better to deal with someone who knows what they're doing and quit messing with the other guys... Don't know how far Leonard, TX is from you but he might just be the closest.
Hi RND,
I've ridden many a mile on Harleys with sidecars but, obviously not on an '07. My experience has been that they are fairly good. They lend themselves to a lot of tweaking and fussing but eventually you can make them handle fairly well.
I'm in a couple of other websites for Harley-Davidson folks. It's been said that the 2007's seem to run a bit hotter than the previous Twin Cam bikes.This probably has to do with the lean-burn approach used, the additional 8 cu. in. in the 2007, and in your case, even more to 103 cu.in.
When I first got my 2004 Ultra, I was amazed at how hot it ran. Stopping at stoplights and putting your legs down was tough due to the heat emanating from the rear cylinder out to your right calf and thigh. Since i have a few thosand miles on it, though, this has reduced dramatically.
I suspect that you could approach a heat reduction by a mixture correction. This could be done wiith a new free-flowing air cleaner, some different mufflers, and something like a Screaming Eagle Race Tuner (SERT), PCIII USB, DFO or the like. Richening up the mixture might help your heat issue to a great extent.
As to the saddlebag issue, there is a kit that changes the right saddlebag hinge so that it opens differently and will no longer annoy you. I don't have the P/N in my book but I think you could find it at the dealer.
You will probably have to live with the rear brake pedal, unless you can do a little welding. As you can see, they had to change levers so that the brake would clear the sidecar frame. I haven't yet seen the replacement lever but I suspect it's more like those on the Evolution bikes, which were hard to operate even on a solo bike.
Just curious...does your '07 Police Model have ABS brakes? Harley-Davidson is, I understand, working on a kit to make use of a sidecar with a Police bike that has ABS but my manual (P/N 99485-06) says that they haven't yet produced one.
As to Harley dealer knowledge regarding sidecars, it's extremely limited. Even though Harley is only one of three or four companies that produce sidecars under their own name, they certainly keep it close to the vest. I have helped to educate my sales rep. when I recently ordered one. I found that I knew much more about the sidecars than he did. They just don't push them at all and there's no training. The attitude seems to be, yeah, we make sidecars, what about it?
Sure hope that you don't lose heart. If you sell out now, you will take a really big hit as I have discovered that sidecars and sidecar rigs are much easier to purchase than they are to sell.
Regards,
gnm109
Originally written by Reardan Tom on 10/20/2006 5:17 AM
In the new Hack'd mag there is an interview with Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars. I'm thinking you'd do well to get in touch with him. www.texassidecars.com or 903-640-2149. Better to deal with someone who knows what they're doing and quit messing with the other guys... Don't know how far Leonard, TX is from you but he might just be the closest.
i agree, if you don't do your own work, it's a good idea to find someone who can help you out. Unfortunately, I was born poor and had to fend for myself , especially with motorcycles and sidecars.
I can't go near the Harley dealer, either. They get $90 dollars an hour!!!!!!!!!
OBTW, seeing your signature line with the reference to dyslexics made me smile. I recall an old joke.
There was this insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic fellow who used to lay awake all night wondering if there really was a dog.
