Forward/Reverse GL Gearbox (1000 & 1100)

Hello Captain Midnight,
thought of this for quite a while too.
You got already a gearbox for the purpose?
Myself I wouldn't mount on the swing arm, for not to give it more work then it has already and not give it unsprung mass load.
But perhaps it could be flanged directly on the sprocket at the outlet of the gearbox.

I like the idea Mobec uses for the reverse gear. (a Industrial standard unit resting on the sidecar frame driven from the sprocket via cardan shaft.)
http://www.mobec.de/gespanne/superdrive/index.php
This is their max version for >24.000€ the basic rig self assemble kit without bike.
But I have no idea where to look for the gearbox, there should be something available on the market. (I think perhaps somebody like Italian Bonfigliori, or US Dodge could have some bolt on gearbox right out of the crate)
Regards
Sven Peter

PS: Just as a mater of manner, I suggest you to mention in your profile and post Your name.

Thank you Sven...
Yes, that reverse unit is quite a bit overkill and much complicated...
No, I will be fabricating my own design.
The intended purpose is for serviceability.
Worst case scenario high in the Bolivian Andes would be to swap the original GL swingarm back in.
The goal is a swingarm mounted F/R selection with driven output to a sidecar wheel using Ural/Dnepr final drive.
Sidecar will have a 1:1 F-N-R gearbox of its own. Possibly clutched. Not sure yet.
Spin like a top it will.
Bullet-proof is the aim.
Steve...

HelloSteve,
that sounds like you have your own machine shop.
I have mine now 19 1/2 years and never was able to do some personnel work of this magnitutde. => Always saving the day for somebody else.
My original idea was using hydraulik motors for all wheel drive and a variable flow control for crawling up the hills or reverse. at the same time it would permit breaking on the hydraulic main line.
But beside the energy waste, the budgets for time and money never came together.

Well, on your way down to the south you are wellcome in Costa Rica for a service stop.

Best wishes
Sven Peter
10ºN, 84ºW

No, Sven, no machine shop... Do have a well equipped home garage though. Currently packed away in another state as I've transitioned a move mid-way across the country and have not settled as of yet. Will contract out specific parts most certainately. I've thought of this for many years with, more or less, the same restrictions.
Very impressed with some hackers and their jaunts into the wild on Urals and am planning my own excursion for a future tour. Have hoped for some developements along the way in the older GL powertrain for adoption to my ideas, but no luck. Will have to one-off it.
Anyway, here is a drawing of a Quaife unit for perspective of sorts. Apparently rated to 250hp and used in many reverse trikes and motorcycle engined cars...
My unit will be smaller. I sure like this one though.

Steve,
where did you find that one...
At this moment I come to the idea that agricultural equipment could have a reverse unit like you talk of. in your dimention something like the small Kubota tractors...
GL 1000 whatkindof bike is that?

I got it off of the Quaife site... although it was a secured PDF...
1978 Honda Goldwing GL-1000...
I have looked at other possible units. Most are not up to the horsepower loads that the GL 1000 motor has. I've found that they are either: not inline (or coaxial), over-built for my app. (which is a plus except for the large size), under-built for my app. (usually for small karts, atc...), or non-existant.
I don't know that I've thoroughly explored the Ag market for parts or complete units. Have looked at the Industrial sector for compatable units also.
That Quaife unit is the closest I've found for what I'd like to do. Actually, it is perfect aside from its size. It is smaller than most comparable units though.
The alternative would be to lengthen the frame (and therefore wheelbase) to accomodate a unit such as the Quaife. I've tossed this route over and over... many, many times. That is a beautifully made unit and would endure all that the GL could give it.
This is my primary reasoning for posting. With the horsepower offerings of a GL 1000, I could scale down an appropriate unit small enough for fitment to the swingarm... as the swingarm would be modified for final drive anyway.
Frame mounting a Quaife Reversing Unit is not entirely out of the question, as it would not add a tremendous amount of wheelbase.
Though at +/- $1600.00, it is a serious investment for a GL1000.

CaptainMidnight85 - 9/18/2009 8:33 AM

I got it off of the Quaife site... although it was a secured PDF...
1978 Honda Goldwing GL-1000...
I have looked at other possible units. Most are not up to the horsepower loads that the GL 1000 motor has. I've found that they are either: not inline (or coaxial), over-built for my app. (which is a plus except for the large size), under-built for my app. (usually for small karts, atc...), or non-existant.
I don't know that I've thoroughly explored the Ag market for parts or complete units. Have looked at the Industrial sector for compatable units also.
That Quaife unit is the closest I've found for what I'd like to do. Actually, it is perfect aside from its size. It is smaller than most comparable units though.
The alternative would be to lengthen the frame (and therefore wheelbase) to accomodate a unit such as the Quaife. I've tossed this route over and over... many, many times. That is a beautifully made unit and would endure all that the GL could give it.
This is my primary reasoning for posting. With the horsepower offerings of a GL 1000, I could scale down an appropriate unit small enough for fitment to the swingarm... as the swingarm would be modified for final drive anyway.
Frame mounting a Quaife Reversing Unit is not entirely out of the question, as it would not add a tremendous amount of wheelbase.
Though at +/- $1600.00, it is a serious investment for a GL1000.

I don't wish to diminish your idea an any way. I only make a suggestion. Why not simply purchase a 1988 through 2000 GL 1500 or a 2001 through 2009 GL 1800 and have done with it. Those bikes come with a geared electrical reverse that works beautifully. Beyond that, they are quite powerful and have a great deal of torque compared to the smaller four cylinder GL's. They are one of the best machines for pulling a sidecar of which I can think, even including HD and BMW and the others. I owned a 1994 GL 1500 for six years and although I never got to the point of adding a sidecar, the idea crossed my mind and I know that there are mounts out there for all of the popular sidecars with many of them on the road.

If I ever build another sidecar rig, it will definitely be a late-model GL based on power, looks and.......a factory reverse gear.

From an engineering standpoint, what you are contemplating would seem to be a daunting task. I presume that the drive shaft would have to be split behind the engine somewhere along the length of the right side swingarm member. That would require the addition of two more splined (or other type) joints to couple the reverse box in place. That's a lot of weight in a short distance. You mention adding length. What would that do to the handling of the machine? How about appearance? These are things that come to mind.

Then there is the problem of adding a tremendous amount of unsprung weight to the rear of a bike that is not all that heavy to begin with.

I presume you've thought about all of this or you wouldn't be mentioning it. Being basically a calm and reflective fellow, whenever I get an idea such as this, I usually have a strong drnk of some sort and upon awakening, I have forgotten what it was that I had in mind. LOL.

Good luck, though. Let us know how it works out. 🙂

Thanks for the reply.
Well, I like the older GLs... They are simple and durable. I could choose any platform for a base. This one appeals to me.
In all honesty, I despise electric reverse no matter how refined on a motorcycle. Hondas choice for electric reverse is a cost issue in my opinion. I'm certain they would say different though.
Call me old-school, but driving the wheels (no matter how many) should come from the powerplant. If the Urals and Dneprs can do it, well then I'm game for a try.
I've thought of the issues you present and greatly appreciate any input offered. This is why I've posted.
The solutions for adding reverse to the GL-1000 I've presented have been long thought upon.
Electric reverse will not happen.
I could choose the easiest route and go for a Patrol or MT-16, but that is not my GL.
Steve.

Although the Honda does have an electric reverse, as you probably knoe, it is done by gearing the starter mechanism to the transmission and through the drive shaft so I suppose it could be called electro-mechanical. If it were solely a cost issue, I suspect that they would have left it off. It certainly worked well on my GL. They continue it to the present day on the GL 1800 and I understand that BMW also has one as an option. One reason they do it using the starter motor is the need to make the motor perform double duty, thus saving space and unsprung weight.

I developed a prototype reverse for my Harley that uses a roller operating on the sidecar wheel. It worked well but was too slow given the fact that it used a winch motor. i'm working on another model now with more power and speed, still to drive the sidecar wheel.

I've seen a thread and pictures of another such sidecar wheel reverse on this site a couple of years ago. The builder used a chain drive with a dog clutch to engage the unit. It also worked quite well so it's doable.

Good luck.

Yes, double-duty cost issue exactly.

Avon Gear & Engineering Company.... anyone have experience in dealings with them?