I am somewhat familiar with Harley sidecars, but mostly with those that came later in the EVO and Twin cam lineage. I have an opportunity to purchase a well-maintained HD sidecar from a very early, factory mated 1984 EVO FLT with a chain, not belt, drive.
I would like to affix the car to my 2000 Twin cam Road King classic. I know there were some frame changes from 1984 to 2000, but will they be a deal breaker? Is the retrofit impractical from a time, labor and cost outlay?
Thanks for any insights you can provide me in this matter.
Lightnin' Lyle
I THINK 1986 was the major frame change year,the 1984 frame is essentially the same FL FX frame that HD used for almost ever.So I think you would need a car that fits a post 1986 frame.
Hopefully some one else will pipe in.
Lightnin' - 7/20/2011 1:42 PM
I am somewhat familiar with Harley sidecars, but mostly with those that came later in the EVO and Twin cam lineage. I have an opportunity to purchase a well-maintained HD sidecar from a very early, factory mated 1984 EVO FLT with a chain, not belt, drive.
I would like to affix the car to my 2000 Twin cam Road King classic. I know there were some frame changes from 1984 to 2000, but will they be a deal breaker? Is the retrofit impractical from a time, labor and cost outlay?
Thanks for any insights you can provide me in this matter.
Lightnin' Lyle
If the 1984 EVO FLT has a rubber-mounted engine with five speeds, it should be capable of attaching to a 2000 T.C. motorcycle. I presume that the lower and upper front fittings will work. That leaves the rear mount. There are several different rear mounts. There are some frames that need three bolts, probably up to around 2001, 2002. I know that my 2004 used a two bolt rear mount.
There are often sidecar mounts to be found on eBay. First, though, you should check to see whether the existing rear mount will work on your bike. I also presume that you will receive all three mounts if you do buy this unit.
Beyond that, there would be some adaptation required for connecting the motorcycle to the sidecar's electrical cable. In that era, typically there would be something like a round DINSE plug with three or four pins to carry power for the stop, tail and turn signals. [It's necessary to remove the turn signal bulb from the bike and use the sidecar turn signal. If you don't, your turn signals will flash too quickly on the right side and you may get a DTC (trouble code)]
The brake line will work OK. That's the same whether there is a disc or drum brake. The '84 sidecar will also have a multi-leaf spring which causes the tub to sit a little higner, say about 1" or so but not much. They changed to a single leaf in '94 and disc brake in '98.
Later sidecars had a steering damper which is to be recommended unless you go all the way and install a set of reduced trail triple trees. This makes the machine unsafe when ridden solo so you need to be certain that you won't be removing the sidecar after making that change. Harley gives this warning in the sidecar manual, by the way, and I also have ridden a Gold Wing solo that had changed trees....it was frightening.
So, assuming you get the mounts, you should be OK. There were few other changes in the HD sidecars. One really nice change was made for the latest ones - dual threaded standoffs for the two lower mounts. This enables the rider to adjust toe-in without removing the sidecar. Changes on the earlier ones (pre-2004) require removement of the 3/4" bolts to change the lengths of the joints.
If you buy one be prepared to have Lonnie tell you that the Harley sidecar has no suspension. This is a small price to pay, however. LOL.
Good luck. 🙂
Thanks for your help. I'm going to get a look at the sidecar on Friday. So, if it isn't is terrific shape, I'll probably pass and wait for a newer model to hit the local market, but then again if the price is right...
Lightnin' - 7/20/2011 7:26 PM
Thanks for your help. I'm going to get a look at the sidecar on Friday. So, if it isn't is terrific shape, I'll probably pass and wait for a newer model to hit the local market, but then again if the price is right...
Be sure to check the areas around the bolt holes underneath on the front and rear of the tub. They can develop cracks. The nice thing about fiberglass tubs is that they can be easily repaired. There are about 40 or so rivets that can be drilled out to take the top off. Then you have complete access to any damage.
The frames tend to have the threads wear loose where the fittings are on the front cross bar. I always replaced those with stods so that I wouldn't wear the holes out loosening them to adjust the lean.
The frame metal is extremely strong and ductile, probably the best in the business. In many years, I've never seen one break. Sometimes the axles can bend but they are replaceable and can even be made. I've done several of them since older ones are not available.
Happy Trails.
GMN,
Good advice. I'll have a flashlight in hand on Friday!
I have been riding motorcycles since 1964 and now because of a newly discovered congenital blood disorder, my friend the Internist has me on a fairly high regimen of blood "thinners." He emphatically suggests that my two-wheel days are pretty much over, so being more a traditionalist than a trike guy, a hack is really my only option. After switching over from Japanese and Italian bikes to AMF HDs in the mid-seventies, I've been fairly loyal to the motor company ever since.
Down the road, I'll convert the triple tree on the Road King to a reduced trail variation, but until that time I'll have to look into retrofitting a damper of some sort to whatever HD TLE, Ultra or ??? I end up with... disc brakes sound like a real plus, too!
Thanks again for your help as I begin the next chapter of my motorcycling experience.
Lightnin'
Lightnin' - 7/21/2011 8:24 AM
GMN,
Good advice. I'll have a flashlight in hand on Friday!I have been riding motorcycles since 1964 and now because of a newly discovered congenital blood disorder, my friend the Internist has me on a fairly high regimen of blood "thinners." He emphatically suggests that my two-wheel days are pretty much over, so being more a traditionalist than a trike guy, a hack is really my only option. After switching over from Japanese and Italian bikes to AMF HDs in the mid-seventies, I've been fairly loyal to the motor company ever since.
Down the road, I'll convert the triple tree on the Road King to a reduced trail variation, but until that time I'll have to look into retrofitting a damper of some sort to whatever HD TLE, Ultra or ??? I end up with... disc brakes sound like a real plus, too!
Thanks again for your help as I begin the next chapter of my motorcycling experience.
Lightnin'
I hope you are OK but the thinners aren't going to stop you from riding. If you listened to them you would probably wrap yourself up in bandages and stay in bed to prevent anything happening. LOL.
I rode a 2010 Harley Trike for a demo ride last year. They are nice but they lack the motorcycle "feel" that you can get from a sidecar rig. They are also incredibly expensive....$35K, cough, cough,
Happy Trails!
GNM,
I put some photos of the connections in an album on this forum. Could you please take a look at them and tell me what you think after seeing them regarding the connectivity with my 2000 Road King frame? I also
sent you a PM before I noticed the album section.
Thanks.
lightnin'
Lightnin' - 7/22/2011 1:39 PM
GNM,
I put some photos of the connections in an album on this forum. Could you please take a look at them and tell me what you think after seeing them regarding the connectivity with my 2000 Road King frame? I also
sent you a PM before I noticed the album section.
Thanks.
lightnin'
Hello,
It appears to be in excellent condition. The front upper and lower mounts will definitely work on your 2000 RK frame. I can't see the rear mount to tell whether it will fit. If you buy it, that's the only issue. Those mounts are probably still available for your frame design but without closeups of that area on your motorcycle and of the donor bike, there's no way to tell.
gnm109,
After coming home and looking at the RK, I have some concern with the placement of the lower front mount and the location of the rear brake reservoir. Does it need to be relocated? I stopped by the local HD shop and the rear connector parts are around $200. This bike also appeared to have a damper already attached, so that's another plus. Thanks again for your insights!
Lightnin' Lyle
Lightnin' - 7/22/2011 4:13 PM
gnm109,
After coming home and looking at the RK, I have some concern with the placement of the lower front mount and the location of the rear brake reservoir. Does it need to be relocated? I stopped by the local HD shop and the rear connector parts are around $200. This bike also appeared to have a damper already attached, so that's another plus. Thanks again for your insights!
Lightnin' Lyle
There are a number of issues that must be addressed when converting a later-model RK to sidecar use. Certain changeover parts are required. They appear in the 2000 Touring Parts manual in the rear with all of the sidecar parts. You should also get the sidecar manual (99485-00) Here are the ones that come to mind:
1. The rear brake reservoir is a plastic cover that is removed with two circlips. This is exchanged for a simple cover that has a hose bib on it. A hose goes upwards to the new replacement reservoir that bolts to the plate with two 1/4" holes in it ahead of the front cylinder and below the upper front mount. This is part of the sidecar connection kit that comes with a new sidecar. The remote reservoir, hose and cover are basically a 1980's FXR setup. The reason for this is that the standard reservoir is in the way when the sidecar is attached.
2. The oil pressure sending unit which threads into the front of the right side crankcase must be turned down 90 degrees with a 90 degree elbow so that it will clear the lower mount. This is a 3/8" pipe, IIRC, and can be sourced at a hardware store.It's a female-male 90 degree.
3. In 2003, Harley changed the rear brake pedal to a "Laydown" style. It can't be used with the sidecar since that pedal hits the front lower sidecar frame horn. If your 2000 brake pedal is stock ("standup style") it will clear with no changes.
4. The clutch cable was changed for sidecar use. The sidecar part is 6" longer and instead of running to the right of the right crankcase, it will be routed under the engine. You might be able to get away without this. I'm not sure whether the standard cable will clear the sidecar frame.
5. There is a 3/16" brake pipe tee that is installed in between the rear brake line and the rear brake switch mount. This sends hydraulic pressure to the sidecar brake when the sidecar brake line is screwed into it. I added a 12" standpipe on mine so that I could more easily connect the sidecar but you don't have to if you are agile. (You basically have to lie down on the floor and use a flash light and a 3/8" open end wrench to get it in. )
6. You said that the sidecar comes with the damper. If so, make sure that you get the metal bracket that bolts to the rear of the lower triple tree. This holds the inner portion of the steering damper. If the damper is a factory installation, there will be a bracket welded onto the top of the front cross bar. If not, you would need to add a clamp of some sort. The damper is identical to an early VW steering damper, by the way.
7. You need to remove the right rear turn signal bulb from the bike so that the turn signals which are controlled by the TSM or TSSM. (turn signal module or turn signal security module) will operate correctly. If not, the resistance will be incorrect and the right turn signal will run at double speed. You could also throw a DTC (Diagnostic trouble code) depending upon the year of the machine. The TSSM is looking for a certain resistance.
8. Later bikes, say 2003 and later, were provided with a roll-over protection switch. (88115-03). this plugs in between the bike main harness and the TSSM. Your bike won't be able to use this so you can forget it. It was designed to shut the motor off in the event that there was a complete roll over. Normally the engine will shut off at anything more than 45 degreess. It has to be programmed at the dealer if you were going to use one.
That's about it, except for the rear mount, which you say you can source from the dealer. You can sell the old one on eBay.
Hope this helps!
Happy Trails. 🙂
Thanks for all the great info. If I buy it, I'm sure I'll have a few questions about the initial setup spec's.
LL
Lightnin' - 7/23/2011 5:47 AM
Thanks for all the great info. If I buy it, I'm sure I'll have a few questions about the initial setup spec's.
LL
Happy to help. Make sure to get the Harley sidecar manual as well for your year of motorcycle.
GNM
If 1984-FLT EVO has a rubber mounted engine and five speed, it must be able to connect to a motorcycle 2000 TC. I suspect that the front bracket upper and lower will work. This leaves the frame back. There are several different media back. There are some managers who need three bolts, probably until about 2001, 2002. I know my 2004 used a two mounting bolts at the rear.
IndianDrives - 7/25/2011 4:04 AM
If 1984-FLT EVO has a rubber mounted engine and five speed, it must be able to connect to a motorcycle 2000 TC. I suspect that the front bracket upper and lower will work. This leaves the frame back. There are several different media back. There are some managers who need three bolts, probably until about 2001, 2002. I know my 2004 used a two mounting bolts at the rear.
Tthe earlier ones usually had three bolts but some were only two. The connection kits used to provide a threaded boss that was to be welded to the frame to pick up the third bolt if it were missing. Harley never could make up their mind but it's not their fault. Owners would keep expanding the years of sidecars that they wanted to connect to their newer machines.
A 1984 connected to a 2000 is 16 years difference. It's hard to keep up with the changes and still make things match up. I've even seen four speed sidecars with threaded mounts that were connected to newer Twin Cam bikes. Where there's a will, there's a way. LOL.
