what i really want to know and i'm not getting an answer to is this: how fast and what do you consider safe. not interested in gas mileage. i average about 36mpg. what i would like to know is this: on a flat road with a hd/hd rig what is top speed wfo. i can only get about 70 maybe 75 on my stock set-up. is this about right? going up mountains with wife on rear and passenger in s/c only about 40!if i rigged my hd ultra s/c on a suzuki hayabusa could i go 180? so- how fast can you go?
Wife on the rear I'm guessing kids in the SC who wants to junp in on this? I's staying out or this one.
Henry
Originally written by shortcut on 8/28/2006 4:12 PM
what i really want to know and i'm not getting an answer to is this: how fast and what do you consider safe. not interested in gas mileage. i average about 36mpg. what i would like to know is this: on a flat road with a hd/hd rig what is top speed wfo. i can only get about 70 maybe 75 on my stock set-up. is this about right? going up mountains with wife on rear and passenger in s/c only about 40!if i rigged my hd ultra s/c on a suzuki hayabusa could i go 180? so- how fast can you go?
I've had Harley Combinations in the past and I'd say you're about spot on. Even with the Stage two kit I didn't feel I had an Interstate capable rig. With a lot of up and down shifting I could hold 70, but on even small grades my speed would drop a lot unless the sidecar was empty and a crisp wind was at my back. Then you deal with the very large tailgaters.
I don't want to be accused of bashing, this isn't meant to be that. Other people are maybe smaller than me, or don't carry as much gear, or maybe their highways are flatter than ours here in Wisconsin. This is just my experience with a Bicentennial Classic, a TourGlide, and a Road King.
They were great bikes on the State Highways and backroads, but personally, I never really felt comfortable with any one of them on the Interstate. They always felt better to me at speeds under 60mph. YMMV
Originally written by SidecarMike on 8/28/2006 4:15 PM
Originally written by shortcut on 8/28/2006 4:12 PM
what i really want to know and i'm not getting an answer to is this: how fast and what do you consider safe. not interested in gas mileage. i average about 36mpg. what i would like to know is this: on a flat road with a hd/hd rig what is top speed wfo. i can only get about 70 maybe 75 on my stock set-up. is this about right? going up mountains with wife on rear and passenger in s/c only about 40!if i rigged my hd ultra s/c on a suzuki hayabusa could i go 180? so- how fast can you go?
I've had Harley Combinations in the past and I'd say you're about spot on. Even with the Stage two kit I didn't feel I had an Interstate capable rig. With a lot of up and down shifting I could hold 70, but on even small grades my speed would drop a lot unless the sidecar was empty and a crisp wind was at my back. Then you deal with the very large tailgaters.
I don't want to be accused of bashing, this isn't meant to be that. Other people are maybe smaller than me, or don't carry as much gear, or maybe their highways are flatter than ours here in Wisconsin. This is just my experience with a Bicentennial Classic, a TourGlide, and a Road King.They were great bikes on the State Highways and backroads, but personally, I never really felt comfortable with any one of them on the Interstate. They always felt better to me at speeds under 60mph. YMMV
thank you mike. that is exactly what i wanted to know.
Mike gave you a great answer about the top speed..he knows!!
but..I cant let this one slip past...
Wife on the rear??? woah! put her in the SC where she belongs! the rear seat is no place for a passenger on a SC rig...very unsafe. If you havnt had any mishaps yet...rest assured, it will happen!
Originally written by shortcut on 8/28/2006 6:12 PM<BR><BR>what i really want to know and i'm not getting an answer to is this: how fast and what do you consider safe. not interested in gas mileage. i average about 36mpg. what i would like to know is this: on a flat road with a hd/hd rig what is top speed wfo. i can only get about 70 maybe 75 on my stock set-up. is this about right? going up mountains with wife on rear and passenger in s/c only about 40!if i rigged my hd ultra s/c on a suzuki hayabusa could i go 180? so- how fast can you go?
You are now venturing into the High Performance Sidecars territory. Strap on your seatbelts kiddies.
You are dealing with a number of issues here.
1. Aerodynamics/streamlining of the whole rig.
2. Rolling resistance of the rig. Running automotive rims/tires, or are you still on stock rubber?
3. Overall RWHP of the tug
Assuming you've got enough HP, to overcome #1 and #2, then you need to look at...
4. Handling. All the RWHP in the world isn't going to help you, if the rig is nasty handling at 60 mph, much less 160 mph. The rig needs to be set up *right*, and i daresay, with many permanent mods to make the sidecar and tug work as one, effective, cohesive unit that is at the least, neutral handling at higher speeds. This may include tuned suspension, swaybar, linked brakes, center hub, or effectively designed LL front end, automotive rim/tire conversions, and streamlining bodywork. The list is neither inclusive, nor all encompassing.
My Bandit/Hannigan rig is more MPS (Medium) than HPS (High) Performance Sidecar. Even so, it'll easily do 170 km/h (~110 mph) sustained. It isn't a HP restriction that limits my top end, but rather very very sensitive steering at that speed. I've still got 2500 rpm to go in 5th, at 170 km/h. One wrong twitch at that speed range, and i could be into a guard rail.
Check out hpsidecars.com for some posts/linkage on what people are doing for this sort of setup.
BTW, I certainly wouldn't be putting a Harley SC on a Hayabusa.. that's a road-crime 🙂
As for the wife on Pillion, and child in sidecar, i'd suggest reading Hal Kendall's sage advice about this in his free online literature - a big no-no.
Oh, and for those interested in the 1/4 or 1/8th mile type of top speed, my rig posted a 145 km/h in the 1/8th mile, unofficial, tagged by an Ontario Provincial Police lazer gun. The only kind of ticket i don't mind getting 🙂
http://www.chairintheair.ca/temp/RADARrun06.wmv
Not bad for a clutch with 60,000 km's on it. You CAN haul azz on a sidecar rig 🙂
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/28/2006 9:56 PM
Mike gave you a great answer about the top speed..he knows!!
but..I cant let this one slip past...
Wife on the rear??? woah! put her in the SC where she belongs! the rear seat is no place for a passenger on a SC rig...very unsafe. If you havnt had any mishaps yet...rest assured, it will happen!
well one of the reasons i bought the s/c in the first place was to include our sons when we go riding. and at 40 top speed going up the mountain i don't perceive much of a safety problem. how else can you include a 3rd rider?
Well.... me too, here goes....
I have a stock GL1800 with a Hannigan GT. With passenger and luggage, up and down the Texas hill country roads, I have no problem going any reasonably sane speed I desire... been 90+mph during passing, with much more on tap. Can do this uphill with passenger. Seems really stable up to 100mph the few times I've been there (without passanger... don't do that sort of thing to others.) Don't think 120 - 130mph would be out of the question on flat ground, no wind, WIDE nice road, etc. (can you say Bonneville)
Used to work for a racing team (sports cars) and built a few drag bikes and similar cars, so have seen the 150mph world on 2 wheels and 4 wheels, but in their proper places (mostly =). However, that being said, don't really like to cruse more than 70-75mph on the Interstate. Will go slower if traffic allows.
I have seen a 'Busa with a very tricked sidecar from France? with center steering on the front and a steering sidecar wheel!!! WOW!!! Found this on the internet, but don't have the website. Will try and upload a few photos of it I have to my photo area here on this site. This thing is way cool and is something that looks like it would make a great high speed road-going hack if anything would.
Oh yea, almost forgot to mention... I carry a fairly light passenger on the back with no one in the chair without a problem, but my sidecar weighs something like 350+ lbs. So, with some luggage in it (holds a LOT!!!) my passenger can sit where ever she wants, which is usually on the back unless its real cold or raining.
Originally written by RocketMan on 8/29/2006 7:21 PMI have seen a 'Busa with a very tricked sidecar from France? with center steering on the front and a steering sidecar wheel!!! WOW!!! Found this on the internet, but don't have the website. Will try and upload a few photos of it I have to my photo area here on this site. This thing is way cool and is something that looks like it would make a great high speed road-going hack if anything would.<p>Oh yea, almost forgot to mention... I carry a fairly light passenger on the back with no one in the chair without a problem, but my sidecar weighs something like 350+ lbs. So, with some luggage in it (holds a LOT!!!) my passenger can sit where ever she wants, which is usually on the back unless its real cold or raining.
http://www.sidecar-cz.com/sajdkary/moto_sidecar/suzuki_gsx1300r.htm
take yer pick 🙂
Think about this, weight transferring in a corner, right hand for the North American crowd.. all of a sudden the corner tightens up and you got a wee bit too much speed going on. All of a sudden, that sidecar is going to start lightening, as the weight starts transferring over to the motorcycle.
Motorcycle == 500 lbs + rider == 220 lbs + passenger == 150 lbs / 870 lbs
Sidecar == 350 lbs + 100 lbs of crap /450 lbs
See where i'm going here?
My sidecar (1st gen Hannigan) all geared up, is around 350.. it lightens going around corners, sidecar empty/no pillion. If i had a pillion, it'd be a lot less controllable, if the going got hot.
*edit* I HATE this board software, always messing with my post formatting.
You dont need to be going fast at all when you have to swerve to avoid a deer, dog, pothole , whatever...10MPH will do it.sidecar can weigh in at 1000 pounds and the passenger is still going to be thrown off to the left in an emergency swerve. just think of a passenger in a car with no doors, and you make a sharp left turn or swerve..that passenger is gonna go flying right out onto the road. now picture a rig.quick right swerve with pass on back seat, or decreasing radius off the freeway,you are ok,hanging onto the bars and leaning to right, but the passenger, who was watching the pretty scenery go past is caught by surprise! he/she gets thrown off to the left side, hanging on for dear life, if she's lucky, and the bike instantly has 140 pounds or more[Im being conservative here] extra pounds hanging off the left side of the bike going around the turn!instant disaster!
there are people who say they have always ridden that way, they have been very lucky. it can happen!... any time. dont make it happen.
for 3 people on the rig get a proper 1 1/2 or double wide SC.
Originally written by RocketMan on 8/29/2006 6:21 PM
almost forgot to mention... I carry a fairly light passenger on the back with no one in the chair without a problem, but my sidecar weighs something like 350+ lbs. So, with some luggage in it (holds a LOT!!!) my passenger can sit where ever she wants, which is usually on the back unless its real cold or raining.
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/29/2006 8:22 PM
You dont need to be going fast at all when but the passenger, who was watching the pretty scenery go past is caught by surprise! there are people who say they have always ridden that way, they have been very lucky. it can happen!... any time. dont make it happen.
for 3 people on the rig get a proper 1 1/2 or double wide SC.
We should then be lobbying to pass laws outlawing all passengers on Trikes, Jetskis, two wheeled Motorcycles, ATVs, and anything else that doesn't have doors and seat belts. Last weekend we had a friend nearly fall over the side of my Pontoon because he wasn't paying attention and I've fallen out of a fishing boat pedestal seat when I stepped on the Trolling motor control with the thing turned sideways. The operative thing is that your passenger has no business on the bike or on a boat or anything else if they aren't paying attention to their surroundings, sidecar or not.
I frequently carry a passenger if the rig is properly balanced with that passenger on the bike. I don't carry a passenger if the sidecar is empty. I also reduce my speed when I do it, but I reduce my speed when I have a passenger in my sidecar as well.
This is just my opinion, just as Bob has his opinion.
being 'balanced' is not the solution ..as i said earlier..a SC can weigh 1000 pounds and still toss a passenger off the side,on a fast right swerve... even at 10 MPH.
You said it Mike, about passengers MUST pay attention. But...they dont!not 100 %... 300 miles on the road , whatever, and they are lookng at scenery, animals, other bikers, cars,fixing their radio, hair , or just plain daydreaming...those are the moments that can be very dangerous.OOOOPS!
yeah , i fell out of a boat also..shoulda been wearing a seatbelt? ;o)
iginally written by SidecarMike on 8/29/2006 10:45 PM
your passenger has no business on the bike or on a boat or anything else if they aren't paying attention to their surroundings, sidecar or not.
I frequently carry a passenger if the rig is properly balanced with that passenger on the bike. I don't carry a passenger if the sidecar is empty. I also reduce my speed when I do it, but I reduce my speed when I have a passenger in my sidecar as well.
This is just my opinion, just as Bob has his opinion.
Yeah. Well... a lot of folks here know my thoughts on this. That and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee (but not a great one, anymore).
I will say that I don't think it matters if your passenger is paying attention one way or the other. Unless you have a monkey on a racing rig, the passenger has 2 options; hang on tight or jump. Not exactly a dim sum cart full of options there.
Good luck to you all who ride passengers on the P-pad. If everything turns out OK, you were right all along.
I started a new thread on passengers so we can give this one back to Shortcut. Maybe someone with more recent HD experience can answer his original questions. My newest one was the 96 RK.
