Right turn drifting

First you need power and it will work only with bad grip. means or bike tires, or gravel/mud/snow/wet grass/snow, ...make it on dry road is very rare/difficult......With my Jawa I have little power but bike tires and mud or wet grass permit me to play nearly like in snow in former times...
Sven

I'd think that you could get a drift going to the right on gravel, but you'd need either a counterweight in the car, or maybe an active monkee to help keep the car wheel down. Problem is, if you suddenly get grip instead of slip, or hit a rut, you're gonna fly the car. If going too fast, you might have a problem!

Drifting, as taught in the S/TEP class, is not a lurid slide. Sliding aggressively when cornering a sidecar is asking for a tipover. This is something that I feel requires coaching and practice to master and is apt to be misunderstood without hands on demonstrations. If you are sliding the rig to square off the corner you are doing it wrong.

I was thinking right side drifting a salvage maneuver for when the sidecar is up and you cant scrub enough speed so you get rid of traction on the bike so the ass slides left and the car comes down.

Paul

pcnorton - 9/17/2011 11:21 AM

I was thinking right side drifting a salvage maneuver for when the sidecar is up and you cant scrub enough speed so you get rid of traction on the bike so the ass slides left and the car comes down.

Paul

Properly done right turn drifting is used to prevent the sidecar from coming up in the first place. Trying to initiate drift after the sidecar is up is more likely to simply accelerate lift towards tipover. Not saying it couldn't work but I am suggesting it is not the best strategy.

But Loss of traction in the rear is the key for not enough centripetal force be generated to lift the car because the force will the just push the ass end out. So kicking it free will not allow the car to rise or as I thought allow it to fall. I'm beginning to think right turn drifting is a waste to practice and its best to learn hown to know the limits of your rig and not drive above them. Left turn drifting on the other hand is a blast but I could seriously go through some tires.

Sliding left can kill you. It is probably the second most common serious mistake beginners make. It feels more controllable than lifting in a right turn, but the opposite is true. The reason you slide easily left is that the weight transfers from the rear wheel reducing it's traction. But you need to be aware the weight is transferring to the sidecar wheel, increasing it's traction and across the tipover line between the sidecar wheel and the front tire, increasing tipover moment. If the sidecar wheel catches traction suddenly, the bike will just as suddenly come up over the sidecar, standing it on it's nose or even going clear over. This will be exacerbated by a passenger or excessive weight in the sidecar or loads on a nose rack, front sidecar panniers or nose mounted jerry cans.

Drifting to control lift when cornering is not throwing the rig into a slide in the turn nor is it breaking the rear wheel loose if you feel like you have gotten in too hot. It is a deliberate, controlled management of front and rear wheel traction done in combination with other cornering techniques and this combination of technique starts before you even enter the turn. The object is not to save your bacon, it is to corner smoothly and quickly, preferably with all 3 wheels on the ground and a minimum of drama, leaving a margin for safety should an emergency arise.

I like to tell my students: smooth is your friend, abrupt is not your friend.

without comment. as usual beer was in game.
Sven

Both seem to be 2wd rigs. That definitely changes everything, cause as the drive wheel of the bike lifts, the drive wheel of the car digs in and continues with thrust.

pcnorton - 9/18/2011 12:54 PM

Both seem to be 2wd rigs. That definitely changes everything, cause as the drive wheel of the bike lifts, the drive wheel of the car digs in and continues with thrust.

I can tell you from both personal and anecdotal experience, it is easy to turn over a conventional single wheel drive outfit sliding left through corners. As you slide the side car wheel moves across the direction of travel as weight transfers to it and lifts the rear of the bike. It can easily stick on pavement and more easily catch a rut or rock off pavement. Either way, if you make a habit of driving like this you will eventually have a "moment". It may be true a driven sidecar wheel might make it a little easier to get traction on the sidecar wheel, the fact is that everything about sliding left conspires to make the wheel grab with or without TWD. The more lurid the slide or the more weight in the sidecar, the more apt it is to flip. Reduced sidecar wheel lead such as found on the Ural GearUp, will also contribute to this outcome

The vintage road racer in the video was just not working it like he should. He didn't pick his line, instead throwing the rig into the corner to try and slide it around. He did not use any front brake to manage his traction and promote drift, instead relying only on abrupt turning in to get it sliding. He didn't really use the throttle either. He should have gotten his speed off before the corner and accelerated through it. It sounds like he used his clutch instead of brakes and throttle to adjust his speed though he could have been downshifting. Neither the driver nor the passenger is effectively using their weight; the passenger leans at the very beginning but is kneeling upright just prior to tip over. Had the monkey been lying across the back of the bike as that rig was designed to be ridden, and the driver been hanging off to the inside, they probably would have made it through the turn, even though the rest of their technique sucked.

If the stars of this video read this, please accept my apologies for my tactlessness and try to take it as constructive criticism from someone who has been there and done that( and worse) And by the way, that is a great looking sidecar!

Trust me, My $200 plus tires have sliding the last thing I want to do. Its more of an living on the edge technique that I can live without.

Yeah tire wear does go up with aggressive driving-you gonna play, ya gotta pay 🙂

You are to be congratulated not only for taking the class, but for going out and practicing and for putting some real thought into what is happening when you apply the exercises!

Don't give up on drifting as a cornering technique. Rather, redefine what you think of as drifting. Start with working on using the the throttle and front brake to control your speed in the turn. Look up "slip angle" . For street riding this is what you are looking for; twisting the contact patch of the rear tire so it points towards the direction of force rather than the centerline of the bike. In fact, it will not point exactly the direction of force or along the centerline of the bike, but you can twist it a little towards the force, dissipating some lift. If it steps out a little, that works too, but you are not looking for a big slide. You want to be subtle and in control.

The key to making this work is putting the rest of what they taught you in class together. This starts before you are actually in the corner. Get your weight off the saddle and towards the inside of the turn. look where you want to go. Pick a line that will reduce lift through the turn(outside, inside, outside). Use both brakes to acquire a speed you can comfortably carry through the corner BEFORE YOU ENTER THE TURN. Off the the brakes, point the front wheel into the turn drag a little front brake as you roll on the throttle. Your speed should remain constant as the throttle comes up. This takes finesse and how much throttle and brake you use will depend on the traction available. As you pass the apex you can ease off the front brake allowing the bike to accelerate out of the corner. Where you do this in the corner will vary with conditions and the stability of your rig. Too soon in a left turn may find you pushing the front tire in understeer, too soon turning right and the sidecar will lift. Be smooth, be subtle. Use your weight to help keep the wheels on the ground and manage your traction. If the sidecar lifts coming out of a right turn don't let it startle you out of your line-keep driving through the corner.

In the end, these are just words. Keep practicing in a safe place until you are proficient(and ever after;-) and until you have a good feel for how your rig behaves.