Reading the recent posts from Claude, Hal and Vernon has been very insightful and entertaining.
I am new to side cars, but have been riding in the snow this winter. This is a risky practice in traffic. I discovered that my front tire looses traction on hard left handers causing the rig to head for the borrow pit. I have a Honda GL650 with a Dneper. Its a basic rig with telescopic forks and motorcycle tires.
It seems that the high performance rigs have leading link or center hub steering with automotive tires to improve handling. The improvement is a reduction of trail (lighter, more responsive steering) and a larger contact patch (better traction) from the tires.
Since I have to work with in the limits of my particular rig, I have come to discover that I can reduce the steering wash out effect by using the front brake and throttle to increase the traction on the front wheel by causing the front suspention to compress and shift more weight to the front wheel, thereby incresing the front wheel traction. If I start to wash out in mid turn, I back off on the throttle and the and restore control. I'm actually steering with the throttle on ice and snow.
Learning to drive an asymetrical vehicle is both challanging and exhilarating, not to mention addicting. Just be sure to learn these lessons at low speeds and not in traffic.
Mark said >>>>>>>>>>>I am new to side cars, but have been riding in the snow this winter. This is a risky practice in traffic. I discovered that my front tire looses traction on hard left handers causing the rig to head for the borrow pit. I have a Honda GL650 with a Dneper. Its a basic rig with telescopic forks and motorcycle tires. <<<<<<<<<<<<
Thats your answer right there...back off on the "hard left handers".
make 'em 'easy' left handers..drive within your rigs capabillities.
I have never drivin my rig in snow, and dont plan to, but I would apply the same caution I do in my 4 wheelers. drive with care in snow and ice.
SNOW AND ICE ARE VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO ANY SIDECAR RIG. THEY DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU'RE DRIVING!!!!
THEY WILL WIPE YOU OUT --WITH NO SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT DOING SO.
IF YOU PLAN ON DRIVING YOUR RIG IN THESE TYPES OF CONDITIONS (ESP ON PAVED ROADS WITH TRAFFIC) GO SLOW ENOUGH TO MAINTAIN CONTROL..............
AS FOR USING YOUR FRONT BRAKE ON A HARD LEFT HANDER ----WATCH OUT !!!!!!
TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE THIS IS NOT A TECHNIQUE THAT IS ADVOCATED BY INSTRUCTORS/EXPERIENCED DRIVERS(COULD BE WRONG ??).
IF THAT REAR TIRE COMES UP --YOU COULD BE IN FOR TROUBLE.
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR RIG CAN DO IN ICE AND SNOW TEST IT OUT IN A PARKING LOT OR AN AREA WITH NO TRAFFIC --LESS DANGER...
KEY WORD---- PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lenny, I agree with you 100%. Snow and ice are very unforgiving. When I am commuting to work in winter, the highway has been plowed and is usually bare pavement. I allow twice as much space between me and the car ahead as I do in my truck.
The side streets are another matter. They are almost always ice. Stops and turns require slow speeds and anticipating the worst. I rarely drive as fast as the speed limit allows (25 mph) in town on ice.
Lenny,
Sorry I forgot, I am not advocating using the front brake through the turn, but rather to set up in advance of turning.
what are you running for tires on the bike in the snow?
Lenny---Try some decaf and hit the caps lock key. RG
Vernon,
I have Median Duro 130/90 X 16 dual Sport on the back at 32 psi.
I have Pirelli MT90 Scorpion 100/90 X 19 Dual Sport on the front at 30 psi.
And I have Avon MKII 3.50/19 sidecar tire for the chair.
Got a photo of the rig handy?
No, what are you thinking?
With my Tiger, with dualsport tires in good condition, snow travel was fun and controlable. I would say safe, but you are never safe on a bike if you are sharing the road with bozos in cars and trucks. I live in a small town and regularly commute year round on my sidecar. I prefer the sidecar to my truck in the snow becuase it handles better and I can shift weight to get better traction with the front wheel for steering or the back wheel for motive power.
Loading the front suspension with judicious use of the brakes works well on dry pavement. It should work on snow as well, providing you don't lose traction. I have found the front wheel tends to slip when I use the brakes and throttle in corners on slippery surfaces. Using it to set up for the corner should work ok.
And steering with the throttle really works!
What I do is stand on the pegs and shift my weight over the handlebars to get the front end to dig in when I am cornering. I shift my weight aft, or even move to the passenger pegs to get traction for forward power, particularly uphills, but it tends not to steer with my weight aft, so I lean forward on the bars when the front wheels starts to slide. A knobby on the front helps.
If the bike gets bogged down in deep stuff(sand or snow) sometimes you can get going again by standing on the left passenger peg, to get the sidecar to lift over the snow instead of sucking you down into it, and to get weight over the rear tire so it can get some bite.
S/TEP dogma says not to pump your brakes if the front end starts to slide, but I do that when braking on slick surfaces and it seeems to work for me.
Studs, screws or chains also helps. With mechanical traction devices or if your tires can get enough bite, you can use the rear brakes to keep you straight coming down hills.
The trick seems to be in making your throttle, brake and weight inputs smooth, not abrupt. You don't want the back end trying to pass the front end.
I figured this stuff out playing around with it on deserted rural roads. It did not work at all with my Speed Triple with V rated BattleAxe radials on it, but it has worked for me with Changs, BMWS, Dneprs, Urals and my Tiger, providing I had decent tires and took some time to see how it responded to various inputs on snowy roads. The tires which have worked best for me have been Kenda K270, Kenda Trackmasters and Continental TKC 80s.
Understand I am not advising anyone to operate a sidecar on public roads, or in the snow or even to ride a motorcylce. Common sense tells us this is dangerous and foolhardy and you will likely be killed or maimed or even worse if you do any of this stuff.
I am just saying, this worked for me, I had fun and I will do it again 😉
VW
http://adventuresidecar.com/jan-1-02.htm
I forgot to mention that I don't have enough tire/swing arm clearance for chains. I was however able to put studs in the rear tire. That was a big help. The front tire didn't have enough tread thickness for studs. Knobbies could just make the difference.
I agree about the bozos on the road. I had one run a red light and total my truck a year ago. I was not injured, but it would have been disaserous on my bike. I have become a more cautious driver since that one. Even more so with the sidecar. as there are no seat belts, air bags or artificial environment to lull you into a false sense of security.
Thanks for the input.
