Now, I'm coming into this late, but in reading your posts, I'd be looking for another dealer.
If your neighborhood is any thing like mine, there's another dealer just down the block.
Curious, I just figured it out. There are 4 HD dealers within about 40 miles of my house. If I enlage that circle to 60 miles I more than double that number. And I live in the northwoods, out in the sticks! You must have somebody close you can trust.
Well, I do have an ace up my sleeve. I know the owner of the shop rather well and also both managers of the two allied shops. I have been working with one salesman and I have got my order in and I don't want to get him fired. I will scream later if I get whacked.
Before I placed an order, I called 4 other nearby dealers and discovered that I know as much or more then any person to whom I spoke. That is not saying a great deal, of course.
At this point, thanks to the other contributors to this thread and some other research that I have done, I have satisfied myself that all that I need will be in the crate. Another issue is the fact that the crate is 30" X 48" by 84" and will weigh about 375 poinds. Therefrore, the local dealer, about 10 miles from my home gets the order. I have to schlepp the thing home when it comes in so the closer the better.
The fact is that none of the HD sales force have any product knowledge on sidecars. It's areally small portion of HD's business so this is understandable.
I will hope for the best since all of the dealers are essentially equivalent on sidecars.
Regards, gnm109
I wish I had a better choice but the dealer I picked is about 20 miles from me. The second one is 5 miles but they would have nothing to do with even ordering the model bike I wanted let alone with a sidecar. The third one is about 70 miles and that was just too far to make good sense after they told me they had never ordered or installed a sidecar. The dealer I used had done one about three years ago, but the tech. that installed it said this was only the second he had put on the other one being at a dealer he formerly worked for. I thought I had done a lot of research and covered all my bases on getting all the parts back that were taken off, but I'll sure know what to do the next time. I hope these posts have helped some others that are going to be buying a car in the future avoid some of the pit falls I experienced. I would have for sure had those guys leave the box the car came in closed until I was there to inspect it if I even had a clue it was going to be this big of a hassle. Oh well, I rode this afternoon some and it was sure good. I am just waiting for all the 2007 manuals to arrive so I can fine tune the adjustments and really get down to business.
Thanks RND. I sure appreciate your input. Maybe this thread will assist others who are in the same situation.
that latch has been around for a long time
when i traded my bike in i totally spaced and did not retrive the latch.. ewww
i just ordered a new one, it came up on the computer and i had it in 3 days
cost a few bux but im the one who forgot to remove it so i figure its a good lesson
90% of the work of installing the mounting kit is removing and reinstalling the exhaust.. if you carefully read the manual you can do it in two big pieces - i didnt and took it all apart.. read twice do once and save some time.
let us all know of how it goes, i got it all done in one long day and that was taking the exhaust copletely apart for no good reason
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as for dealers there is one in illinois - zylstra that averages 3 a year, mostly matched sets
the one in delano does about one every 2 years, mostly seperate sets
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Originally written by timo482 on 10/29/2006 2:16 AM
that latch has been around for a long time
when i traded my bike in i totally spaced and did not retrive the latch.. ewww
i just ordered a new one, it came up on the computer and i had it in 3 days
cost a few bux but im the one who forgot to remove it so i figure its a good lesson
90% of the work of installing the mounting kit is removing and reinstalling the exhaust.. if you carefully read the manual you can do it in two big pieces - i didnt and took it all apart.. read twice do once and save some time.
let us all know of how it goes, i got it all done in one long day and that was taking the exhaust copletely apart for no good reason
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I certainly will let you know. I'm salivating just thinking about it and I still have to wait until they ship on Dec. 15 and then a few days more.
Regards,
gnm109
Well, just a little update. I talked to a factory guy at HD today that handles fleet sales which was good but the guy also rides an EG with a TLE and seems well versed in the line. He confirmed that there is nothing in the works to make the oiler cooler work with the sidecar, he also stated that the cooling fan will not fit on the 07 bike I have. His suggestion as to the best care for the engine is to run synthetic oil. He stated that he does not know of a parts list that is available for what is shipped with the side car as far as extra stuff. He was very insistant about proper tire pressure and checking it every day. The set up HD recomends is for a 170 lb rider, he said that the unloaded car itself should have a 1% lean into the bike (that was a new one). I was asking more technical questions than he felt comfortable answering since he was traveling and was waiting for a plane at the time of our conversation. He gave me the name and number of a co-worker that he said is even more technically educated on the HD and TLE combo specs. than he is. He stated he was going to call him and get him up to speed on my concerns and have him contact me first thing in the morning and I should take all the time I needed to get my questions answered. I told him I honestly might not be able to do that in one conversation so he assured me that this fellow was very congenial and would be happy to provide information until my head exploded. I'm ready!! He did say that the only dealers that really know these things inside and out are all in the northeast and mainly around the DC area. I guess that's because the US park police have several hundred of them just in that area. I'll let you know any good info I get after I talk to him.
Originally written by RND on 11/1/2006 6:54 PM
Well, just a little update. I talked to a factory guy at HD today that handles fleet sales which was good but the guy also rides an EG with a TLE and seems well versed in the line. He confirmed that there is nothing in the works to make the oiler cooler work with the sidecar, he also stated that the cooling fan will not fit on the 07 bike I have. His suggestion as to the best care for the engine is to run synthetic oil. He stated that he does not know of a parts list that is available for what is shipped with the side car as far as extra stuff. He was very insistant about proper tire pressure and checking it every day. The set up HD recomends is for a 170 lb rider, he said that the unloaded car itself should have a 1% lean into the bike (that was a new one). I was asking more technical questions than he felt comfortable answering since he was traveling and was waiting for a plane at the time of our conversation. He gave me the name and number of a co-worker that he said is even more technically educated on the HD and TLE combo specs. than he is. He stated he was going to call him and get him up to speed on my concerns and have him contact me first thing in the morning and I should take all the time I needed to get my questions answered. I told him I honestly might not be able to do that in one conversation so he assured me that this fellow was very congenial and would be happy to provide information until my head exploded. I'm ready!! He did say that the only dealers that really know these things inside and out are all in the northeast and mainly around the DC area. I guess that's because the US park police have several hundred of them just in that area. I'll let you know any good info I get after I talk to him.
Hi,
That's a nice update. He's correct about the 1% lean-in on the Harley sidecar. This is shown in the Service Manual that I have. (P/N 99485-06). The theory is that with 1% lean-in, when the rider is seated on the bike, the 1% will move outward so that you have a 0 (zero) setting. They show a diagram in the book. If you don't already have a Sears Magnetic Protractor I suggest you get one. This will help you to set it. I forget whether you said you had one or not.
The other issues are that the sidecar wheel should be perfectly vertical and the sidecar frame should be horizontal. The only other issue is to have 3/4 toe-in. It's rather difficult to get exact on the toe-in, too. Once you get it, the sidecar will steer nicely neutral on a reasonably flat road. The time you will have issues with a Harley sidecar (or other make) is on a high crowned road. Unfortunately, no one to my knowledge makes an electric lean for a Harley. It would sure be nice to have one.
Thanks for your input. I'd like to hear more. It will be another six weeks until I know what comes with a Harley sidecar.
Regards,
gnm109
Another update, I talked to HD again today and got in touch with the person who is up on all the sidecar stuff. I found out that in my case some of the questions I had were going to be dealt with in the 2007 police supplement to the repair manual. The kicker is, it is not out yet, oh well. I was told that the changes in the engine from the 88 to the 103 in my case and the 96 in the civilian bike had caused some unantisipated complications in the installation of the TLE and they are being dealt with in this new 2007 supplement. My concern about the oil cooler removal was a hot button item since HD says that it had to be installed on the 103 and was critical in hot climates.(that would sure fit most of Texas) He is checking with the design and engineering department to see if a fix has been decided on. I guess from his comments that it is also a concern at HD and they know they need a fix. The next major issue I brought up was the fact that the cooling fan does not fit on the 103 even though the book says it does and the dealer says it does. The response was that an adapter bracket is being designed as we speak and that is one of the things they are waiting on before they put out the police supplement. I also asked about the plug for the rear master cyclinder and a couple other minor items that he is going to check on for me that he just did not have a definite answer for. He assured me he would call me back Friday and update me on what he has found out and the status of the fixes or updates in the car installation procedure. A little progress is sure better than nothing! I'll let you know.RND
Thanks again.
This is really interesting. Yeah, they changed most everythiing on the 2007 model, including I guess, the sidecar mounts. It would be a good thing to have an oil cooler, particularly with that larger engine. One alternative would be to keep the rig moving so as not to heat up too much.
I understand that the EPA has cracked down on changes to motorycles beginning with the 2006, 2007 bikes. That makes it even tougher to change the fuel mixture as the dealers are under the gun to slow down on such changes. Getting the fuel mixture correct would make for a cooler engine. I understand that with the HD race tuner (SERT) you can still adjust the EFI on a 2007, although different mufflers may be harder to come by.
To be continued, I'm sure. Thanks.
when you hear of a oil cooler fix let me know
i want to put one on, but have the same issue & id like to have it bored to 103 this winter but wont till there is some practical way to hook up the cooler. mounting it is trivial, its the hoses that are the problem, cant have two hoses in the same space.
with the epa doing there thing harley [and all the other us mfgs] have legal combinations of modifications. for side car use big mufflers etc are not much use, but cubic inches really are. the 96 pulls much harder than the 88 did. 103 is pretty cheap, 110 is availiable but not cheap. both are legal combinations, 113 is the same price as 110 but not legal [however nobody but the installer will know, the parts are the same price and look exactly the same. in all of those cases - a cooler is mandatory & wont fit - im going to stick with 96 till there is a working cooler availiable. & i have a order in for a fan - on backorder pending the bracket change.
besides - the 96 will go 90, just how fast do i need to go?
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Given similar configurations, heat production is largely a function of engine displacement. With the BMW airheads, I found the 1000 cc. engine ran hottest and the 650 ran coolest, despite it's shorter cylinders having a bit less fins. The difference was huge- even without a sidecar the 1000 would overheat in low speed riding. The 650 wouldn't overheat no matter how severe the conditions- even long slow parades in 35 degree (Centigrade) temps. The best combination I found was the 800 cc. airhead, which thanks to it's longer cylinders runs almost as cool as the 650.
Applying this experience to HOG V-twins, I'd be tempted to stick to the smaller engine. I'd even go so far as to choose a Sportster or Buell- the 1200 offers as much performance as the big twin. For an outfit that saw a lot of parade duty, I'd go with the standard 883. The smaller pistons produce less vibration, allowing the idle speed to be dropped to further reduce heat production. Another option would be the water cooled 21st century HOG product, the V-Rod.
As far as waiting for HOG to figure out how to fit their sidecar to their motorcycle, I'd cancel the order and go to Motorvation, Liberty, or one of the other fine sidecar makers that can cistom make a mounting solution for you.
charming as usual
i ran a sidecar on a 79 sporster - bad idea - just not big enough or fast enough.
so - since you want to bash harley & us harley sidecar users all the time.. why doesnt bmw make there own sidecars any more? why do folks have to purchase one from the aftermarket in the first place? why cant we get sidecar rear gear boxes anymore for the new bikes? im 6'1 and i can barley touch the ground on my brothers bmw.. its just so high up, i feel real unbalanced riding it.. it must be at least 5" taller than my ultra is? why does the thing need 7" of ground clearance for highway use? why do i have to ride with my knees bent so hard that i get a cramp in about 45 mins.. it runs really nice and they last - but its just so blasted uncomfortable after just a few mins. i like the engine & the telelever & the rear swing arm and the single sided wheel & the milage and the durability - but i just cant ride the thing for any length of time.
my other brothers 70 era bike had the same problems - sort of like a short gold wing.. really hard on my feet and knees.. just too tall and too short from front to back.
im going to stick with what i have & try and solve the few minor annoyances i have and go from there. probably will never own a bmw bike.. just the way it is & i dont expect you to ever own a harley - if you did you would get it better on how this all works..
there is a certain spec'd setup, i want to do a non standard setup & am working on the details. my non standard items are: raked tree, 15" radial tires, oil cooler - all the rest will stay stone stock.
and in point of absolute fact bmw doesnt make any of those items either - to have a bmw with radial tires & tree & oil cooler the best bet would be eml & i can gaurantee that combination will cost lots more than mine does - howver a eml would really rock from a performance point of view. - possibly if i win the lottery.
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Don't get so defensive, did you note I was discussing some HOG products I kinda like?
The Sportster/Buell V-twin platform has a lot of potential for hack'n. The tube frame Buells can and have been hack'd, and with a weight of 215-225 kilograms and 70-90 horses at the rear wheel they have plenty of performance. They also have very rigid forks with minimal trail for easy and responsive steering, and adjustable suspension that should easily handle the stress and strain of a hack. I've been tempted to build one of these hack'd Buells myself, and might do it yet.
For easier mounting, try a Sporty- the engine is now rubber mounted and the price is a bargain. Thanks to Erik Buell and his elves, the Sportster engine can put out just as much power as a big twin with equal reliability. Factor in the Sporty's lighter weight and it will out accellerate a big twin. With a bit of shopping you could get a new Sportster and Hack with change back from $10,000... Half the price of a big twin!
