I found the 88" plain vanilla 2003 to be a bit anemic at 75 or more and terrible gas hog at that speed, I added the 95" (no cam) kit to mine and the increase in torque was remarkable for the bike's ability to accelerate and cruise at reasonable highway speeds.
p.s., my hack is an ebay special at $4500 and color matched complete with all hardware, hard to beat, really, came with 2 and 3 hole rear mounts.
One hassle on the pre 2003(?) hacks is the lack of the double nut for toe in adjustment, having to undo the clevis balls to adjust is a true PIA, later are super easy with a lock nut and turn to adjust and and retighten locknut..
Yeah, they are a bit underpowered when stock. I already have a pair of cylinders to bore and will use one of the available EFI add-on units to match the new size engine. That should help.
You got a good deal but i've always found that sidecar prices are fairly reasonable when used. They are difficult to sell.
The newer mounts, from what I've been reading, are much easier to adjust for toe-in. My new 2007 sidecar will have them.
Happy Trails.
gnm109
Originally written by blacktourist on 10/22/2006 9:14 AM
I found the 88" plain vanilla 2003 to be a bit anemic at 75 or more and terrible gas hog at that speed, I added the 95" (no cam) kit to mine and the increase in torque was remarkable for the bike's ability to accelerate and cruise at reasonable highway speeds.
p.s., my hack is an ebay special at $4500 and color matched complete with all hardware, hard to beat, really, came with 2 and 3 hole rear mounts.
One hassle on the pre 2003(?) hacks is the lack of the double nut for toe in adjustment, having to undo the clevis balls to adjust is a true PIA, later are super easy with a lock nut and turn to adjust and and retighten locknut..
Hi!
I was wondering whether you had an EFI bike or not. If so, what was done to correct the fuel mixture on your HD when you went to 95 cubic inches?
I'll probably be doing that along with a better Air Cleaner and a set of free flowing mufflers. The stock cams are quite good for low speed torque so I'll be leaving those alone.
Thanks in advance.
gnm109, If you would let me know when you get your 07 sidecar in, I would like to know what extra equipment came with it so I know how much stuff the dealer forgot to give me back. I would also like to know how you set it up and compare it to mine. The only difference will be is that I have the 103ci that comes standard on the police fleet model. I am still waiting on my sidecar manual to come in so I have and idea what to start adjusting. Thanks
RND
the 07 efi bikes use a closed loop ox sensor setup on both cylinders. it can be adjusted with a race tuner. if you put in larger cyls or air cleaner or pipes you need to get a download to the efi unit to make it work right - however if only the air cleaner is done the system can self adjust. now if you dont care about the epa police & warranty you can do lots of tuning to make it go. & be cooler etc etc.
as far as parts back after a tle is installed on a 07 hd. there should be a saddle bag latch, a master cyl reservour housing, a brake pedal, a rear right swing arm bracket, some plugs from the back of the lower tree, and if it is a ultra the right lower fairing & its brackets. & a special little brake line plug for the occasion that the sidecar is removed to make the rear brake work. if it was a 103 or a 110 there will also be a oil cooler and braket & the adapter & hoses.
if somebody figures out how to mount a oil cooler to a 07 let me know, on a 99-06 it was easy - just plumb it in the hose between the engine and the tank - now that hose is gone so it wont work - im open for ideas?
later
to
Yea, I'd like to know about that oil cooler also, it really bugs me that it won't work. I guess I need to ask them about the plug for the master cyl and the plugs for the tree, they broke the reservoir so I figure that will be a fight. I hope they still have the saddle bag latch. I did get a clutch cable back since they said a longer one had to be installed on the 07 set up. I have tried to get a parts list from Harley about what was shipped with the tle but they don't seem to want to help. Go figure, they've been paid so who am I! Like I said before EG is great and the 103 has a real kick to it, and with the car the thing is a real crowd pleaser. When I finally get the set up right I'm sure it will be even more enjoyable.
RND
Originally written by RND on 10/24/2006 5:24 PM
gnm109, If you would let me know when you get your 07 sidecar in, I would like to know what extra equipment came with it so I know how much stuff the dealer forgot to give me back. I would also like to know how you set it up and compare it to mine. The only difference will be is that I have the 103ci that comes standard on the police fleet model. I am still waiting on my sidecar manual to come in so I have and idea what to start adjusting. Thanks
RND
I certainly will. Frankly I'm wondering what all is in there myself as the dealer hasn't got a clue. I had to call HD and discovered that most all of the items are there but even they weren't sure about the Bank Angle Rollover adapter cable....sure hope I don't have to buy one of those for another $150.....
I've made a note to write a thread when I get it so that the mystery can be uncovered for all to see.
Regards,
gnm109
i forgot about the short cable... sorry...
with the car is a packing list listing the part numbers of the boxes
get the dealer parts man to go online with those numbers and it gives a list of parts in each box.
there is also a illustration on line with a pic of the parts.
in the mounting kit box there is a installation manual and a parts list and illustration.
in the sidecar manual it lists all the parts that *should* come with a new in the box tle.
i have double checked and every single oil cooler harley sells has a note "not for use with sidecar" basically its cause the hoses occupy the same space.
later
to
Originally written by timo482 on 10/25/2006 3:26 PM
i forgot about the short cable... sorry...
with the car is a packing list listing the part numbers of the boxes
get the dealer parts man to go online with those numbers and it gives a list of parts in each box.
there is also a illustration on line with a pic of the parts.
in the mounting kit box there is a installation manual and a parts list and illustration.
in the sidecar manual it lists all the parts that *should* come with a new in the box tle.
i have double checked and every single oil cooler harley sells has a note "not for use with sidecar" basically its cause the hoses occupy the same space.
later
to
Hi,
The "short cable" to which you refer is the "Bank Angle Sensor Switch Kit. They show this as P/N 88115-03. I was wondering whether that came with the 2004 sidecar that you originally purchased and which is now on your 2007 bike?? In any case you would need one.
I'm just hoping that it will be in the crate when I get it. I can't get the salesman to tell me. He goes blank when I ask him anything.
Comments?
Thanks in advance.
by short cable i mean the short clutch cable - after its installed the short cable should come back.
the manual says "discard" in reference to many parts. the clear intent is that many of the mounting kit parts become a permenent part of the bike.. go figure
yes the 2004 car came with the bank angle cable and some bits. not needed on the 2007.
what i was told by the only parts guy i knew who actually knew these parts [now a electrical parts salesman, steady work to feed his kids] is that if the car is ordered to fit a particular serial number then all the parts needed for that serial number will come with it. however.. the farther apart the years are the more futzing around may be needed. it appears that all the 2007 mounts will actually fit a 2006 and older - just not the other way around. the only part needed on a 2004 that is not needed on a 2007 is the bank sensor..
you will know soon, let us all know
to
I did forget to mention that the installation tech. that put my car on said that he did install the bank angle sensor that came with the car. Does anybody know if there was one on the bike that was replaced or if this new one was an add on. Because here again if they took one off to put the other on I want that one back also. I don't have a clue why these guys can't figure out that this stuff cost a lot of money if you have to buy it to put the bike back in original condition so you can keep the car for another bike. I hate to keep going to them and asking for more parts they removed, but I did pay for all that stuff and I am sure two or three years from now they won't be offering any free parts to me to put my bike back like it was. By the way you guys have been great in providing info on a very little know subject and I thank you for that.
Originally written by timo482 on 10/25/2006 9:36 PM
by short cable i mean the short clutch cable - after its installed the short cable should come back.
the manual says "discard" in reference to many parts. the clear intent is that many of the mounting kit parts become a permenent part of the bike.. go figure
yes the 2004 car came with the bank angle cable and some bits. not needed on the 2007.
what i was told by the only parts guy i knew who actually knew these parts [now a electrical parts salesman, steady work to feed his kids] is that if the car is ordered to fit a particular serial number then all the parts needed for that serial number will come with it. however.. the farther apart the years are the more futzing around may be needed. it appears that all the 2007 mounts will actually fit a 2006 and older - just not the other way around. the only part needed on a 2004 that is not needed on a 2007 is the bank sensor..
you will know soon, let us all know
to
Thank you very much for the prompt response. Thanks to you, I'm beginning to feel better already. It sure makes sense that if you are buying a crated sidecar for a specific model year bike with a VIN nummber that they ask for, that they would put all the parts in that are needed. They make specific references to the safety issue of the Bank Angle parts and so they should all be in there, with the understanding that the buyer is willing to pay for them.
Imagine the confusion if a buyer in Europe were to purchase a sidecar and then have to start otdering extra parts.
I'll let you and everyone else know what's in there when I receive the crate. I have another 50 days or so to wait.
Regards,
gnm109
Originally written by RND on 10/25/2006 8:15 PM
I did forget to mention that the installation tech. that put my car on said that he did install the bank angle sensor that came with the car. Does anybody know if there was one on the bike that was replaced or if this new one was an add on. Because here again if they took one off to put the other on I want that one back also. I don't have a clue why these guys can't figure out that this stuff cost a lot of money if you have to buy it to put the bike back in original condition so you can keep the car for another bike. I hate to keep going to them and asking for more parts they removed, but I did pay for all that stuff and I am sure two or three years from now they won't be offering any free parts to me to put my bike back like it was. By the way you guys have been great in providing info on a very little know subject and I thank you for that.
Yeah, this subject is really a deep dark mystery in the world of Harley-Davidson.
To address your question about the bank angle sensor switch kit, my manual shows that the extra kit, P/N 88115-03, was used on 2003 bikes and later. The standard bank angle sensor is just like the one on a Honda Goldwing. It's a small unit that cuts the engine off if the bike falls over beyond a 50 degree or so angle. They can sometimes go bad and cause the engine to shut off in a curve even on a solo bike. Honda, in fact, had a recall on the 1500 models before about 1992.
So, in order to set the machine up for sidecar use, it's clear that the standard bank angle sensor won't work. The manual makes reference to the fact that, if not changed, it can cause the machine to shut off, primarily in a hard right turn. The bank angle sensor in post-2003 FL HD's is part of the main motorcycle wiring harness and is left in place when P/N 88115-03 is added. That unit has logic in the cable so that it cuts the original bank angle sensor out of the circuit and then takes over the job. It is designed to cut the engine off on rollover, which is the sidecar equivalent of falling over, which sidecars really don't do.
So your original bank angle sensor is in there and wouldn't need to be removed. The new bank angle sensor has to be toggled digitally to the sidecar position using the HD digital Technician tool. My dealer has already quoted me 1/2 hour labor for this ten minute job...hahaha. ($45.00)
As to other parts that should come back to you separately when the sidecar is installed by the dealer, here is my best guess:
1. Brake pedal.
2. Brake reservoir cap and cylinder end.
3. Clutch cable (there is no room on the right side for the cable so a longer one that runs nder the engine is needed.)
4. Right side passenger footrest fitting. (this is replaced by the lower rear mount which also carries your passenger footrest, although it is no longer adjustable due to room restrictions)
5. Plastic plugs from the lower front fork triple tree holes where the steering damper bracket is bolted.
Hope this helps.
gnm109
Thanks, so far that list sounds pretty good and I'm going to make sure they get those items to me. It has been a real education process for the dealer. They do seem to be clueless about info on the car and installation. I am going to continue to plug away at getting myself educated on these things to the dergee of PHD o better. I'll keep you updated.
Originally written by RND on 10/26/2006 11:49 AM
Thanks, so far that list sounds pretty good and I'm going to make sure they get those items to me. It has been a real education process for the dealer. They do seem to be clueless about info on the car and installation. I am going to continue to plug away at getting myself educated on these things to the dergee of PHD o better. I'll keep you updated.
I just thought of another issue. There is a kit shown in the service manual that changes the right saddlebag hinge so that it will no longer fold over outward and hit the sidecar body. It has a special hinge and would replace the hinge and fabric strap that comes with the bike. It puts the hings on the inside to allow the lid to merely lift up.
The only problem is that they don't have a part number for it. This leads me to believe that it may be part of the connection kit. In fact, the sidecar manual, P/N 99485-06 does state on page 2-33 that it "comes with the sidecar". If that's the case, it appears from the picture in the book that some parts may be replaced, although it's not clear which. If your bike has had the right saddlebag hinge modified, there should have been some parts to put it back to stock if and when it's required.
This book calls it out as 1994 to present so it's been around for a while.
All of this is one reason that I told the salesman that when the crate with my siecar comes in to the dealer that "I am to be notified the same day and that they are forbidden to open it without my being present". If they can't tell me what's supplied when I buy it, I certainly don't want them diddling with it after it comes in, especially since they aren't going to be the ones who install it. I am.
So, the plot thickens, eh? Nothing like a little product knowledge, that's what I always say!
