I'm looking at a 2001 Harley sidecar, Vin (1HD8SGX171T01038) with all mounting gear, bake lines etc. I have a 2008 Road King, and I'm wondering about the fitment of the car. Will the mounts for 2001 match the 2008 FLH frame without having to purchase completely new frame mount hardware? The local Harley shop is unsure about this as well. It seems there was a frame change from the 01 to 08 model bikes, but they are unsure about the hardware question. They've only done two side cars over the last six years. So I throw this out to the experts.
deltasnook - 2/17/2010 11:21 AM
I'm looking at a 2001 Harley sidecar, Vin (1HD8SGX171T01038) with all mounting gear, bake lines etc. I have a 2008 Road King, and I'm wondering about the fitment of the car. Will the mounts for 2001 match the 2008 FLH frame without having to purchase completely new frame mount hardware? The local Harley shop is unsure about this as well. It seems there was a frame change from the 01 to 08 model bikes, but they are unsure about the hardware question. They've only done two side cars over the last six years. So I throw this out to the experts.
The starting point would be to buy a copy of the Harley Manual for your year motorcycle. (P/N 99485-08) This will show which P/N kit will fit a 2001 sidecar to a 2008 FL RK. I know, you will have loose parts and won't know which connection kit you will have. The book will be helpful in that regard anyway.
Your particluar problem is an interesting one in that Harley changed the rear mount from three bolts to two bolts at some point after 2001. (2002...?) Furthermore, as you already know, they changed the frame (and everything else) for the 96" motor in 2007 (?) and some further changes in 2008, AFAIK, for the motor connection from the front cylinder to the frame.
If I had to guess, I would say, without making any bets, that you should be OK for everything except the rear mount, which I'm reasonably certain has changed.
You will also need a different brake pedal to clear the sidecar frame at the front lower mount and other changes such as the longer clutch cable to go under the engine to get away from the sidecar frame.
I'm guessing that the brake cylinder may have to be changed to an FXR style remote reservoir type (mine needed that change) as well as moving the oil pressure sending unit to mount on a 90 degree elbow to clear the lower front mount. There is also a brake tee for the sidecar brake but they all need that.
There is also a roll over safety switch ( P/N 88115-03) that probably won't be with your 2001 sidecar. You can get by without it but it's designed to shut the motor off if the rig should turn upside down. (It has to be toggled to sidecar usage by the dealer, LOL, Nice, Huh? ) They added that in 2003. From 2001 to 2002, the owner could change the TSSM for sidecar use by him or herself using handlebar turn signal codes.
Normally the Bank Angle Sensor inside of the TSSM (Tunr Signal Safety Module) will stop the engine when the bike reaches a 45 degree angle either direction. The switch installation and software toggle change that to 180 degrees.
Make sure also that you receive the steering damper, steering damper to lower triple tree mount amd the owner's manual.
One other issue, about which I know little but suspect much and fear a lot, is whether the cable from the sidecar to the motorcycle will fit without adaptation. Harley also likes to change cable connectors now and then. Given the fact that there are 7 years intervening between the sidecar and the bike, there is a possibility of some change there.
Since you didn't mention whether your sidecar is a TLE or TLE Ultra (Sorry I don't read VIN #'s) if it's a standrd TLE, the cables should be OK, except maybe for the connector. If it's an Ultra, you'll have a few extra radio cables that definitely won't be used on an RK.
EDIT: I saw the sidecar you are considering on the internet. It looks OK to me. Good luck.
It's not surprising that the dealers are not conversant with sidecar changes. Most of them will never even see one unless someone special orders it. When I ordered mine, I got it in the crate and took it home and installed it myself.
So, my educated guess would be that you would generally be OK except for the rear mount. If I'm wrong, I'll buy coffee. LOL. One other thing. Lots of times when a sidecar has been installed on a bike and then removed, the seller will simply leave the extra items on his bike and only give the three mounts. If you have the book, you can actually take inventory since the parts are listed and the part numbers will show you what year the changes were made to each part. 'Nuff said.
Hope this helps.
the front lower right mount wont fit at all - no way - no how.. the front lower left is "probably" ok.. the rear mount wont fit, the top mount - i dont know - you will have to get the proper manual and part it out.. the big change in 2007 was the move of the oil filter - it wont clear the 2006 & older mount. then in 08 they changed the top engine mount and i cant tell you if it will clear the top sidecar mount from 2001.
brake pedal, brake rez, hoses, clutch cable, oil pressure fitting, brake fitting etc should be at least close
in any case, you need the 08 sidecar manual and you need a GOOD parts man.. somebody who actually has a harley not a toyota.
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timo482 - 2/20/2010 9:55 PM
the front lower right mount wont fit at all - no way - no how.. the front lower left is "probably" ok.. the rear mount wont fit, the top mount - i dont know - you will have to get the proper manual and part it out.. the big change in 2007 was the move of the oil filter - it wont clear the 2006 & older mount. then in 08 they changed the top engine mount and i cant tell you if it will clear the top sidecar mount from 2001.
brake pedal, brake rez, hoses, clutch cable, oil pressure fitting, brake fitting etc should be at least close
in any case, you need the 08 sidecar manual and you need a GOOD parts man.. somebody who actually has a harley not a toyota.
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Well, that makes it pretty much certain that he will have to buy the entire connection kit ($1,200?) to connect a 2001 sidecar to a 2008 bike.
This very issue is why I decided to buy a new sidecar matched to my VIN number by the Harley Factory. I wanted something that would bolt right on.
Furthermore, in Harley terms, the way they are changing them almost every year nowadays, 6 to 7 years between the age of the sidecar to the age of the bike pretty much guarantees headaches in making the proper connections.
Usually the HD sidecars sell for $4-5K or more on eBay. If you have to buy a connection kit you might as well buy a new sidecar. I bought the standard model because I didn't need the radio equipment in the sidecar. I got mine for a little over $7K. If you have to pay 5K and then add a connection kit and maybe paint the sidecar to match and get a matching wheel, you are out the same money as buying a new one.
I figured there would be problems with the rear mount. If you are correct, apparently it's with all of the mounts.
Happy Trails!
the other thing that is happening with the near constant frame and wire changes is that very soon now separating a bike & sidecar to sell them will result in a price hit rather than a price gain.
for quite a while now its been obvious that folks would buy a combo for cheap and then separate them and sell the bike as if it never had a sidecar getting more bux [solo riders think sidecars wear out the bike] and then selling the sidecar for enough to make a profit on the split since the buyer almost never understood the implication of a missing connection kit.
soon, very soon, separating them will result in a loss on the work since nothing will fit from the sidecar to any bike other than the one it came with.
the price of the kit purchased separate is rising very fast & the individual parts to make up missing kit parts is much higher than the kit. the result will be that a sidecar ON the bike will be worth more than a sidecar on a pallet - it is now its just that most folks dont understand whats missing looking at the sidecar on the pallet - what the difference is is that as the kit escalates over a grand it wont be long before folks really get that removing it from the bike is throwing a grand plus labor of value away.
the other issue is how long hd will keep making sidecars.... there have been rumors afloat that they may stop production - if that happens getting new kits will cease - that will make the sidecar ON the bike worth at least twice what its worth on a pallet.
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timo482 - 2/21/2010 9:20 AM
the other thing that is happening with the near constant frame and wire changes is that very soon now separating a bike & sidecar to sell them will result in a price hit rather than a price gain.
for quite a while now its been obvious that folks would buy a combo for cheap and then separate them and sell the bike as if it never had a sidecar getting more bux [solo riders think sidecars wear out the bike] and then selling the sidecar for enough to make a profit on the split since the buyer almost never understood the implication of a missing connection kit.
soon, very soon, separating them will result in a loss on the work since nothing will fit from the sidecar to any bike other than the one it came with.
the price of the kit purchased separate is rising very fast & the individual parts to make up missing kit parts is much higher than the kit. the result will be that a sidecar ON the bike will be worth more than a sidecar on a pallet - it is now its just that most folks dont understand whats missing looking at the sidecar on the pallet - what the difference is is that as the kit escalates over a grand it wont be long before folks really get that removing it from the bike is throwing a grand plus labor of value away.
the other issue is how long hd will keep making sidecars.... there have been rumors afloat that they may stop production - if that happens getting new kits will cease - that will make the sidecar ON the bike worth at least twice what its worth on a pallet.
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All that you say may be possible. Certainly prices on kits and parts will rise. I bought a connection kit around 1994 and it cost me something like $800 then.
As to whether HD will quit making sidecars, they are a special order item now and more or less always have been. The dealers can order them but they generally only do so if they have a customer who pays up front. So, since they only build them to order, what would be the point in quitting? Do you have a source for your rumor? Maye that's the same source that predicted Harley-Davidson is going to close up all of their factories and start making lingerie. LOL.
In any case, sidecars have always been a low volume production for Harley-Davidson. The only sidecar rigs I've seen in HD dealers in the past 25 years were ones that were ordered and for some reason, not picked up (deals fell through, customer got cold feet and bought a solo after the sidecar came in, changed mind, death in the family, etc.). Ordinarily, a dealer won't go near one in an attempt to sell someone on one. Like many things in life, sidecars are an acquired taste.
As far as changes, those will be constant as you say. It will require some determination to buy an older one since it will require the proper connections as you say. No one ever said that motorcycling and sidecarring was going to be inexpensive.
As I said, that's why I ordered one for my bike. I wanted to avoid the heartache of searching for rare parts.
the wording of the recent sidecar survey i got, to me, basically said "if we only make trikes will you buy a trike from us or a sidecar from somebody else"
the obvious big bux they are pouring into r&d for trikes
dealers stock trikes - nobody stocks sidecars - five years ago you could search the hd website and find sidecars for sale.... now just trikes.
there are now two models for trikes - and all kinds of options and upgrades and new gew gaws for them.
there is general retrenchment - they dropped buell closed plants, consolidated productions while at the same time introducing new models of trikes.
and now the the sidecar mounting kits, rather than working for 10 years worth of bikes... are 07, then different again for 08, then different again for 10...
the parking brake, required in some states is now as much as the connection kit. [and its quite a pos i have to tell you]
used hd sidecars are losing value fast if they are not ON a bike since the least cost to attach is 1200.. if you are in a parking brake state - its 2400 to put a used one on...
im going to do all i can to hang on to mine, it works perfect... if i have to sell it, ill probably never be able to get one again & in truth if i had it to do over id get the hd trike - way better resale...... even though i prefer the sidecar over the trike -
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timo482 - 2/21/2010 4:02 PM
the wording of the recent sidecar survey i got, to me, basically said "if we only make trikes will you buy a trike from us or a sidecar from somebody else"
the obvious big bux they are pouring into r&d for trikes
dealers stock trikes - nobody stocks sidecars - five years ago you could search the hd website and find sidecars for sale.... now just trikes.
there are now two models for trikes - and all kinds of options and upgrades and new gew gaws for them.
there is general retrenchment - they dropped buell closed plants, consolidated productions while at the same time introducing new models of trikes.
and now the the sidecar mounting kits, rather than working for 10 years worth of bikes... are 07, then different again for 08, then different again for 10...
the parking brake, required in some states is now as much as the connection kit. [and its quite a pos i have to tell you]
used hd sidecars are losing value fast if they are not ON a bike since the least cost to attach is 1200.. if you are in a parking brake state - its 2400 to put a used one on...
im going to do all i can to hang on to mine, it works perfect... if i have to sell it, ill probably never be able to get one again & in truth if i had it to do over id get the hd trike - way better resale...... even though i prefer the sidecar over the trike -
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There's no reason to sell your rig if you are happy with it. I'd never buy a trike. I owned a 45" Servicar once and wound up getting a solo frame and converting it to a solo.
It's understandable that Harley should feature trikes. It's a reintroduction for Harley and they want to make a go of it. Unfortunattely, there couldn't be a worse economic environment to start up something "new".
the ONLY reason id sell mine is economic - im just on the edge... if things stay the same or get better all is good, if things get worse it will go.....
its obvious that things are awful for hd... the cvo's got put in the main line.. union trouble.. plant consolidations
obvious cost cutting everywhere...
just a bummer all around...
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