Originally written by timo482 on 2/3/2008 4:55 PM
at least in the past [before brembo] they dont actually change the rear brake cylinder - they change the rear brake reservoir and install a remote reservoir.
of course what i am VERY interested in is that the manuals just changed [this month] and 08 bikes with antilock can be used with a sidecar - so something really changed - the earlier antilock could not be used with a sidecar.
when that is all done PLEASE post pictures of the rear brake master cyl etc.
thanks
to
Well sure, they don't actually change the master cylinder. They change the cover and use a remote reservoir from an FXR.
Yeah, it is interesting to see that they can now use the ABS with a sidecar. Hope it works. LOL
In my case, I have a riding style that never overruns my braking capability. I tend to downshift while slowing down and, typically I slow enough so that I need only a tap of brake here and there. I don't like panic stops. One benefit of this is that my brake linings and rotors tend to last me a long time.
Originally written by Rotten Ralph on 2/4/2008 8:23 AM
In retrospect, I think that the 2003 sidecar production figures that I posted might have been only for Road King TLE sidecars.
Which raises the question of whether there are different Sidecar models for specific Harley bikes. The HD Police section shows the Police TLE Model Sidecar, and I assume that this is the same Specs that you would have if you were buying one for your Heritage or Road King. But then there's a defined "Ultra TLE", which appears to be the TLE with upgrades. Is there a list of HD sidecar options that are available (other than those shown in the Police section)?
Originally written by skaeser on 2/4/2008 5:38 PM
Originally written by Rotten Ralph on 2/4/2008 8:23 AM
In retrospect, I think that the 2003 sidecar production figures that I posted might have been only for Road King TLE sidecars.
Which raises the question of whether there are different Sidecar models for specific Harley bikes. The HD Police section shows the Police TLE Model Sidecar, and I assume that this is the same Specs that you would have if you were buying one for your Heritage or Road King. But then there's a defined "Ultra TLE", which appears to be the TLE with upgrades. Is there a list of HD sidecar options that are available (other than those shown in the Police section)?
Harley has only built one basic model now for many years, the TLE/TLE Ultra. They are built for the FL's. They used to make a set of mounts for the FXR's when they were used for police bikes. AFAIK, the ones they sell to the police departments nowadays are the TLE model. There may be some minor mods for the police but I don't know what they are. They don't show up in the parts books if there are any.
So far, they haven't made mounts for the Softails nor do they recommend running a sidsecar on a Softail, apparently due to the suspension and lighter frame.
I raised the question with my dealer when I noticed a Police bike and sidecar that had a rear bumper behind the sidecar, providing some protection. I'm not sure I'd want one, but it caused me to ask what parts were available. They indicted that they can order from catalogs with parts for Police and other emergency vehicles, and so that answer was probably "yes".
Originally written by skaeser on 2/5/2008 3:13 AM
I raised the question with my dealer when I noticed a Police bike and sidecar that had a rear bumper behind the sidecar, providing some protection. I'm not sure I'd want one, but it caused me to ask what parts were available. They indicted that they can order from catalogs with parts for Police and other emergency vehicles, and so that answer was probably "yes".
Another "secret" revealed. I've yet to find the "Police Sidecar Manual".....there probably is one, though. If you find one, let us know. I'd like to add it to my collection.
I can't find the link that leads to these pages, but I did find the "official" HD pages for their sidecars:
For the TLE Sidecar-
http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2008/08_sidecar_spec.asp?&family=touring&model=
For the TLE Ultra Sidecar-
http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2008/08_sidecar_spec.asp?bmLocale=en_US&family=touring&model=flhtcu
These are the pages that Harley put up to provide full descriptions, but for the life of me I can't find what web pages link back to these URLs. I initially located the 2007 sidecar descriptions, but you can manually change the date in the URL to 2008 and it pulls in the newer information.
The Police TLE is referenced directly from the Police/Firefighters section of their web page, but that's not exactly the same as the consumer units.
Steve
Originally written by skaeser on 2/5/2008 7:59 AM
I can't find the link that leads to these pages, but I did find the "official" HD pages for their sidecars:
For the TLE Sidecar-
http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2008/08_sidecar_spec.asp?&family=touring&model=For the TLE Ultra Sidecar-
http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2008/08_sidecar_spec.asp?bmLocale=en_US&family=touring&model=flhtcuThese are the pages that Harley put up to provide full descriptions, but for the life of me I can't find what web pages link back to these URLs. I initially located the 2007 sidecar descriptions, but you can manually change the date in the URL to 2008 and it pulls in the newer information.
The Police TLE is referenced directly from the Police/Firefighters section of their web page, but that's not exactly the same as the consumer units.
Steve
To get those pages in the future if you should lose them, go to Google. Type in "Harley-Davidson TLE Sidecar" for one search. That will come up. For another search, Google "Harley-Davidson TLE/Ultra Sidecar". That will get the other one. As you have noticed, they do not link to these sites from their main HD website. I guess that's part of their "sidecar secrecy" program. LOL
I've got the 2004 HD Touring Parts Manual and it shows all of the parts for the Police model FL's. The sidecar parts listings are in there also.
I've used it extensively in the past and, while there police parts shown for the FL bikes themselves, I don't recall that there are separate police parts shown for the sidecars. It's possible that individual police departments can order special items, though. You mention the rear bumper, for example. I'd like to have one but I can't find a part number. This is not unusual for HD, however. For example, they don't list part numbers for the right saddlebag conversion kit or the right side Ultra lower fairing. They ordinarily come with the sidecar when you order it. There are part numbers, it's just hard to find them. I have them somewhere. LOL
I got lucky last year and found a brand new right side sidecar fairing lower on eBay for $187.50 at auction and I was quite glad to get it. I painted it and striped it and it looks great. I use that and my stock left side lower.
One reason that I like the standard TLE sidecar is that it has more legroom without the radio pod. I ran the passenger communication cable over on the right saddlebag brace so that my S.O. can plug her J&M headset into the system when we ride together.
This gives us intercomm and she can use the volume control on the right side of the seat. It is more than sufficient since she is happy to listen to what I may have on the radio.
There are no 'Police Sidecars' specifically - there are simply sidecars (TLEs) that we buy for the FL "P" series bikes.
There are some agencies - like the US Park Police in D.C. - that order the bikes without the sidecar windshield because they are not used for passengers - just to haul around traffic control equipment (orange cones, flares, spike strips, extensive first-aid kits etc...) and it's easier to deal with the in/out of this stuff without a windshield.
About the only thing that I can actually say that is "Police" on a standard - lets say FLHPI - when we get them from the dealer is the saddlebags with the hockey-puck opener, run-flat tires, different sprocket (faster out of the hole when taking off for the bad guys!), that fantastic air-ride seat (can't say enough about that truly all day saddle!!!) and some bits and pieces here and there like siren & emergency light switches, radio box deck, etc... That doesn't include extra available stuff like cooling fans and junk that we don't use even though folks will say "It's Police issue!"...no it's not - at least not in Kansas City.
So in short - no secret 'stuff' - just standard TLEs.
In fact - if you guys want to see a bone stock FLHPI Police Issue bike (siren, lights, radio - whole 9 yards! with a sidecar as issued, come on to the Nationals in Duluth - I'll be there....;)
Happy Motorin'
Dean
Indeed, the two Models that HD sells are based on the TLE, with the Ultra including options somewhat proprietary to the Ultra motorcycle.
My rig was delivered last evening and it's really a nice looking ride, IMHO. I haven't been able to take any pictures yet, but will do so.
I had someone at the Dealer drive it to my home, and he was one of the few there familiar with sidecars. He compared it to his 2000 Ultra and said my bike tracked far better around turns and he was impressed with the handling. The brake on the sidecar is NOT a Brembo brake, and it's tied directly to the rear system, so that the activation of the Brembo rear brake also actuates the sidecar brake. There is no sensor on the sidecar wheel.
I asked about the parts that were left over from my upgrades and they brought out a box of parts from the install of the sidecar. I asked about the original mufflers and air intake components I'd replaced, and they found another box with my name on it and brought that out as well.
It's supposed to be rainy today, and I have to learn how to handle this new ride. Slow is my friend, and I'm signing up with the Northern Virginnia Course.
Ride safe,
Steve
2008 Ultra w/Sidecar
2006 XL1200C
Originally written by skaeser on 2/6/2008 3:09 AM
Indeed, the two Models that HD sells are based on the TLE, with the Ultra including options somewhat proprietary to the Ultra motorcycle.
My rig was delivered last evening and it's really a nice looking ride, IMHO. I haven't been able to take any pictures yet, but will do so.
I had someone at the Dealer drive it to my home, and he was one of the few there familiar with sidecars. He compared it to his 2000 Ultra and said my bike tracked far better around turns and he was impressed with the handling. The brake on the sidecar is NOT a Brembo brake, and it's tied directly to the rear system, so that the activation of the Brembo rear brake also actuates the sidecar brake. There is no sensor on the sidecar wheel.
I asked about the parts that were left over from my upgrades and they brought out a box of parts from the install of the sidecar. I asked about the original mufflers and air intake components I'd replaced, and they found another box with my name on it and brought that out as well.
It's supposed to be rainy today, and I have to learn how to handle this new ride. Slow is my friend, and I'm signing up with the Northern Virginnia Course.
Ride safe,
Steve
2008 Ultra w/Sidecar
2006 XL1200C
Good! Glad you are getting started. The class will be helpful. BTW, if they want you to raise the sidecar wheel (i.e. "fly the chair") as part of the class, I say go right ahead. Just don't do it on your machine, however....see if you can borrow the instructor's rig 'cause if you manage to turn your bike all the way over, you are lookig at about $15,000 in damage! LOL
Sure it's nice to learn to control your rig but don't do that when you are trying to ride safely. As a general rule, you want to keep all of the wheels on the ground. LOL
I recommend adding some weight to the sidecar frame as far outboard as you can get it. I have 50# of weight near the sidecar brake.
Happy Trails
Thanks for the advice, and I don't plan on flying my sidecar any time on purpose. I believe they have rigs for the class in Virginia, and I'll let you know, but that would be better for everyone concerned. They can teach the basics and not worry about the differences in how they each handle.
Adding weight for better stability is a good idea and this all so new that I'm thinking about what I'll normally carry for emergencies. I only had one bag on the back of my Sportster, so now I have options that I didn't have before.
Steve
This point came up before and it seems that flying a unit as heavy as the TLE has to be quite stressful on both the sidecar and motorcycle frames. Anyone ever hear of damage from this on Harley rigs?
Originally written by Rotten Ralph on 2/6/2008 5:27 AM
This point came up before and it seems that flying a unit as heavy as the TLE has to be quite stressful on both the sidecar and motorcycle frames. Anyone ever hear of damage from this on Harley rigs?
I think this would be a strain on any rig. The Harley sidecar frame is quite tough, though. HD doesn't skimp on the steel tubing. It's chrome- moly and nicely bent and welded. The Harley sidecar design also has a bit of give in it.
I've not seen or heard of damage to a sidecar frame from anything other than impact with cars or trees. Even then, they can sometimes be straightened. I've repaired a few using a Porta-Power uit and that metal is really tough!
As far as the weight, the HD car weighs in at 234 pounds. A Goldwing with something like a Hannigan double-wide tub would weigh as much or more.
When I mentioned the idea of adding a little weight to the sidecar to help with handling, the salesman at my dealer said that HD used to sell a 100 pound plate that you mounted to the sidecar frame. I haven't seen such an accessory listed anywhere, and I'm not sure I'd really want to add that much dead weight to the rig. But perhaps someone else has heard or this.
Originally written by skaeser on 2/6/2008 2:58 PM
When I mentioned the idea of adding a little weight to the sidecar to help with handling, the salesman at my dealer said that HD used to sell a 100 pound plate that you mounted to the sidecar frame. I haven't seen such an accessory listed anywhere, and I'm not sure I'd really want to add that much dead weight to the rig. But perhaps someone else has heard or this.
HD did formerly sell a cast-iron sidecar weight. It wasn't 100 # though, but rather 46 #. It mounted to the frame at the center of the right spring where the four retaining bolts are. I believe they only sold it for a short while. I bought one from the dealer around 1996 or so and IIRC it was more than $100.
On my present rig I use a hand-built 50# weight that is similar to the HD weight with the exception that I used 1/4" steel plate and then filled it with cast lead. It is plenty since 50# mounted at over 4 feet from the center of the bike has a powerful effect. The tire is held quite firmly to the ground. It improved the handling quite a bit.
I'm stuck in bed now, waiting for another hip replacement next month but if I can, I'l look in my other computer for a picture or maybe take another one for you. In the meantime, you could get some birdshot and put it in a container in the sidecar somewhere, at least until you could build something more permanent.
Those HD weights were pretty rare since they didn't sell well and HD quit building them, along with their reverse gear kit. That used a ring gear with a starter motor and a separate battery in the trunk. They worked well but were expensive ($1,300) and only worked with the sidecars that had the drum brake. They quit selling those in 1998 when they came out with the newer frame with the disc brake.
I posted some pictures of the weight that I built here about a year ago and I'll see if I can find them.
Regards, gnm
