i read in the local paper today that the city of stillwater mn has decided that the best way to combat loud motorcycles is to stop the offending bikes and check the mufflers - if they are not factory epa approved - 110 fine and a tow & impound.
the city sees it as a way to quiet folks down with no new laws or regs - just enforce what is there allready. ie "no tampering" - charming as always.
according to the paper many localities are watching stillwater closely, if it works mpls says they will be next - possibly by the 4th of july - to do the check the cops just google the bikes vin on the internet in there car - and compare the picture - if it does not match - ticket and tow.
this should be interesting. im EXTREMELY glad i have factory mufflers. still, i have the optional set so im making a copy of the catalog today and put it in with the insurance papers showing that model muffler is epa compliant - just in case.
to
lack of self control hurts us all. Those that are so desperate for attention that they have to make obnoxious levels of noise are getting ALL of us booted. Every time someone runs through town with straight pipes they off more voters.
Question what about the punks with boom boxes?Here in Nevada they tell us there is nothing they can do.Anybody with a brain knows there is a law on the books somewhere for that noise.
I don't want my bike loud.That is a pesonal thing When they start with one thing they best inforce all noise laws.Barking dogs,these little jap cars with the loud mufflers and the boom boxes.OH and not last write tickets to everyone that runs the stop sign next to my house.LOL I'm sure you see what I mean just nowhere to stop.it seems like alot of us folks just don't police ourselves like we should so we in time will loose more freedoms that we take for granted.
Every one of them has their own car. they can relate to car drivers, event he noisy ones. But few if any of them have motorcycles. Motorcyles are a "them" and a "they" and its always easy to pass laws against "them and They". Harder to pass a law that affects "us" and "we".
Originally written by timo482 on 4/24/2007 7:20 PM
i read in the local paper today that the city of stillwater mn has decided that the best way to combat loud motorcycles is to stop the offending bikes and check the mufflers - if they are not factory epa approved - 110 fine and a tow & impound.
the city sees it as a way to quiet folks down with no new laws or regs - just enforce what is there allready. ie "no tampering" - charming as always.
according to the paper many localities are watching stillwater closely, if it works mpls says they will be next - possibly by the 4th of july - to do the check the cops just google the bikes vin on the internet in there car - and compare the picture - if it does not match - ticket and tow.
this should be interesting. im EXTREMELY glad i have factory mufflers. still, i have the optional set so im making a copy of the catalog today and put it in with the insurance papers showing that model muffler is epa compliant - just in case.
to
Yeah, me too! I run all stock motorcycles and sidecars. I like to be able to find my parts in a manual.
It's true that the powers that be will be cracking down on motorcycle modifications to a greater extent, particularly here in California.
I would like a bit more power but, all in all, for the useage that I give my rig, it's fine. I ride fairly casually nowadays anyway.
Besides, if I start modifying, I have to go ahead and do the whole thing: mufflers, air cleaner, probably the cams and then the fuel injection system maps with one of several aftermarket units.
Sadly, although those modifications might net me more power on the top end, they would almost certainly elevate the rpms where the torque curve starts to cut in. This is something that I don't want to do on my bike. Right now, it pulls well from the bottom. I like it that way.
well - see thats exactley what they are going around
they are not bothering with checking noise at all - they gave up on that idea
they are going after anybody who is making nose via the epa regs - the epa regs have said for 20+ years that you cant "tamper" with the emission controls. so... they dont have to pass any law, just enforce the 20 year old ones.. and its easy to do - pass one line in the city code that adopts the epa regs.. then any bike or car or truck with non stock exhaust making noise is in deep deep doo.. and they wont even write noise on the ticket - just a pollution control tampering violation.
i heard about this in the mags from the coasts - some dealers have paid some really big 6 figure fines.. the attitude is that "they wont enforce that here"
well they are & they are using it on the street racers too.. they pull up - dont even have to find somebody drag racing, no car chases, nothing... , all they have to do is find a car with non stock mufflers and tag and tow, end of racing for today.....
this has been coming for a few years - and its just sooo easy for the cops - take a picture of the muffler and write the ticket & there is just no way out.
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Noise is what it's about. My wife died 5 years ago after a long illness. During that time she had a hard time sleeping. Every morning at 6AM she was woken up by our neighbor with his straight pipes on his HD.
In 2005, I attended, by invitation, a Sound Seminar at AMA headquarters in Columbus, Ohio. The consensus was that loud pipes do not save lives and that they make the voters mad. The AMA must use its funds to fight towns and cities that PROHIBIT motorcycles because of the ones making all that noise.
IMHO there are probably only two financially easy ways to stop loud pipes on motorcycles. The first is to ban motorcycles, which is illegal most of the time and secondly, to enforce the EPA regs which can be done, in this case, by appearance. Appearance enforcement might be questionable and that's why other cities and towns are watching. The idea of going by noise levels using db meters seems to work only for off road events where a reliable testing method can be set up for enrollees.
Many people think that we have the right to choose or not choose to wear a helmet and that's true, despite the laws requiring them in many states. After all, that decison only affects the rider.
However the decision to install straight pipes, with the resultant loud obnoxious noise that affects others, is not a right.
You will notice that I'm talking about straight pipes not modifying the exhaust for a nice mellow but louder tone. What will happen here is that ultimately, we will be forced to keep the stock system and, if it wears out, it will be only replaced with another stock system.
Now I do know people will not agree with me here just as they didn't agree with the AMA's stand but I feel strongely about this and I'd like to continue riding (or driving the rig) as long as this 79 year old body lets me. We don't need a few to spoil it for many.
Wayne
Originally written by solo1 on 4/26/2007 6:15 AM
Noise is what it's about. My wife died 5 years ago after a long illness. During that time she had a hard time sleeping. Every morning at 6AM she was woken up by our neighbor with his straight pipes on his HD.
In 2005, I attended, by invitation, a Sound Seminar at AMA headquarters in Columbus, Ohio. The consensus was that loud pipes do not save lives and that they make the voters mad. The AMA must use its funds to fight towns and cities that PROHIBIT motorcycles because of the ones making all that noise.
IMHO there are probably only two financially easy ways to stop loud pipes on motorcycles. The first is to ban motorcycles, which is illegal most of the time and secondly, to enforce the EPA regs which can be done, in this case, by appearance. Appearance enforcement might be questionable and that's why other cities and towns are watching. The idea of going by noise levels using db meters seems to work only for off road events where a reliable testing method can be set up for enrollees.Many people think that we have the right to choose or not choose to wear a helmet and that's true, despite the laws requiring them in many states. After all, that decison only affects the rider.
However the decision to install straight pipes, with the resultant loud obnoxious noise that affects others, is not a right.
You will notice that I'm talking about straight pipes not modifying the exhaust for a nice mellow but louder tone. What will happen here is that ultimately, we will be forced to keep the stock system and, if it wears out, it will be only replaced with another stock system.
Now I do know people will not agree with me here just as they didn't agree with the AMA's stand but I feel strongely about this and I'd like to continue riding (or driving the rig) as long as this 79 year old body lets me. We don't need a few to spoil it for many.Wayne
Good post! I agree completely!
I’m a long-time motorcyclist as I suspect you are. I started riding when the AMA was the American “Motorcycle” Association. I can recall when I was a kid, riding my Harley 45 to high school in Chicago, I was stopped almost every day for a muffler check. I had a stock muffler that was bought surplus for $5.00! It was unmodified. They still stopped me!
This slogan “Loud Pipes Save Lives” makes no sense to me. The typical car nowadays is built so tightly you can’t hear anything from the outside. It’s just an excuse to run open pipes.
I like mufflers on my rig because of my passenger. The seating for the passenger is right near the right muffler. Could you imagine sitting there all-day and listening to a loud exhaust?
In Europe, they have already put stringent controls on vehicle exhausts. They can fine you and confiscate your vehicle for running an unapproved exhaust.
I look for the possibility of periodic inspections being made on the federal level. At that point, they could check for modifications to exhaust systems on motorcycles. They already do this in most states for Smog checks on cars.
Ever since the 2006 EPA rules came out, Harley-Davidson has been promoting quiet exhausts. It appears that they will be removing the “Screamin’ Eagle” line of performance products like exhausts, cylinder heads and cams. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain by selling non-conforming parts.
Happy Trails.
they do however sell and promote street legal, epa legal, quiet performance kits.
for the 96" bikes there is 4" quiet mufflers and a big air cleaner
then a 103 big bore kit [cyl, pistons, 4" mufflers]
then a 103 with legal cams , cyls, pistons, 4" mufflers kit
then a 110 inch kit with cams, cyl, heads, and 4" quiet mufflers.
the 4" mufflers have shown on the dyno to make more power than many of the loud after market stuff - but they dissapoint those who want loud, they only provide power, not much more noise.
later
to
Originally written by timo482 on 4/24/2007 7:20 PM
i read in the local paper today that the city of stillwater mn has decided that the best way to combat loud motorcycles is to stop the offending bikes and check the mufflers - if they are not factory epa approved - 110 fine and a tow & impound.
the city sees it as a way to quiet folks down with no new laws or regs - just enforce what is there allready. ie "no tampering" - charming as always.
according to the paper many localities are watching stillwater closely, if it works mpls says they will be next - possibly by the 4th of july - to do the check the cops just google the bikes vin on the internet in there car - and compare the picture - if it does not match - ticket and tow.
this should be interesting. im EXTREMELY glad i have factory mufflers. still, i have the optional set so im making a copy of the catalog today and put it in with the insurance papers showing that model muffler is epa compliant - just in case.
to
Does this apply to older motorcycles?
What if the stock mufflers are no longer available?
Is there an exemption like turn signals in certain states?
Originally written by gnm109 on 4/26/2007 8:24 AM
Good post! I agree completely!
I can recall when I was a kid, riding my Harley 45 to high school in Chicago, I was stopped almost every day for a muffler check.
Harley 45's are cool!
Originally written by skiri251 on 4/30/2007 10:46
Does this apply to older motorcycles?
What if the stock mufflers are no longer available?
Is there an exemption like turn signals in certain states?
The first time the rule/law is appealed on the grounds that, although the pipe is not stock, it is EPA approved for that particular make and model of motorcycle, The city could well end up with a few law suits for unlawful confiscation of personal property with out due process of Law.
What is law inforcement going to do, stock every catalog that sales EPA approved, after market exhaust systems. I doubt they will want to spend their prescious budgets hiring someone, just to make sure their list is up to date.
My 81 Goldwing can be seen to sound pretty loud, yet it still has the stock exhaust system on it. Just reving it a few times to clear the carbs is enough for me to get dirty looks from one of my neighbors. Not to mention my other neightbor who has a Kawasaki pocket rocket that is stock also and you can hear him coming from a couple of blocks away.
Maybe someone should orginize a Rally made up of loud but stock, EPA approved, DMV inspected motorcycles and ride around city hall as a group.
It might well be advised to have a couple of well versed Lawyers present, a Judge or two who thinks their courts are full enough with frivilous prosicution cases as it is.
Originally written by gregbenner on 4/30/2007 4:00 PM
Originally written by gnm109 on 4/26/2007 8:24 AM
Good post! I agree completely!
I can recall when I was a kid, riding my Harley 45 to high school in Chicago, I was stopped almost every day for a muffler check.
Harley 45's are cool!
They are/were are great little motorycle. It's not too well known but Harley also made a military sidecar for them. I once owned a set of the mounts. That option was very, very rare.
The Harley 45's were very common in Chicago when I was starting to ride. There were lots of used military and civilian models around. All of the HD dealers were loaded with NOS military parts packed in cosmolene. Prices were literally dirt cheap. Examples are: a complete frame for $25, Wico Magneto $25, full-race cams (4) $25, new set of connecting rods in a box with crankpin, rollers and races, $15, fuel tanks, left and right, $20 each. That stuff is hard to find now.
I have a lot of old and classic bikes and you just plain can't get stock pipes for those bikes anymore. I have some repops on my TR6C. My old 750k on my side car is not stock and they can not be purchased anymore from Honda.
And I'm sorry but stock pipes on a Ducati just is not acceptable in my mind. Oh well, I'll worry about it if they decide to do that where I live.
Exactly!
Plus, if it's just looks, then you can put stock muffler and take out all the buffles and still loud.
OTOH, if the government forces the manufacturers to sell OEM mufflers for older bikes, that would be great. I would love to install OEM 4 into 4 pipes on my 750K with reasonable cost. LOL
