VW steering damper question... • VW steering damper question... • USCA Sidecar Forum • United Sidecar Association %

#1 · February 9, 2011, 12:38 pm

Hello folks, I want to put a VW steering damper on my Guzzi/ Friendship II rig, I have read that the older bug dampers have a longer" stroke". the longest I can find say for a 67 bug is 6.2" in a gabriel damper, I think a vW damper with mounting eyes on both ends may work out better than the one I mentioned that has a threaded arm on one end. can you folks give me some advice/suggestions on which damper to use, and what the stroke length is. also , do any of the sidecar equipment suppliers sell a damper" kit"? a damper that is adjustable for firmness would be the bee's knees! Thanks in advance, Rick.

#2 · February 9, 2011, 1:35 pm

I had one of those on my Goldwing HitchHiker rig. Attach the threaded end to a heim joint to give it a little play. To make it simple, (and cheap), mine came with this threaded to one end of a glorified muffler clamp around one leg of the front fork, and the other end attached to the upper brace for the sidecar.

I put it on there a few times, but each time removed it within a week or two.

Personally, I don't like them. They just make it harder to handle at low speed manuevers. I too would like to find an adjustable one if I ever used one again.

Here is one off of a GSXR. I've seen these up close, they are about the same size as the one on my EV.

Maybe you could figure out a way to put it where the stock Guzzi one is on the left side of the tank?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-SUZUKI-GSXR-1000-STEERING-STABILIZER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19b5e2f4b5QQitemZ110425732277QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

#3 · February 9, 2011, 1:55 pm

Hi Mike, was the VW damper you had on your wing too stiff? I have what looks like a car shock absorber on mine, and though it controls the headshake well, its hard as a rock for low speed work, I am hoping the vw damper is softer. I tried an adjustable damper from Mikes XS, and it is too soft,( but works great on my loop) I think I will have to find some heim joints like you have to put on one end of the VW thing. BTW...still loving the 7/33 gears! Thanks again, Rick.

#4 · February 9, 2011, 2:13 pm

Bigbikerrick - 2/9/2011 12:55 PM Hi Mike, was the VW damper you had on your wing too stiff? I have what looks like a car shock absorber on mine, and though it controls the headshake well, its hard as a rock for low speed work, I am hoping the vw damper is softer. I tried an adjustable damper from Mikes XS, and it is too soft,( but works great on my loop) I think I will have to find some heim joints like you have to put on one end of the VW thing. BTW...still loving the 7/33 gears! Thanks again, Rick.

Yes, it was too stiff. It was fine if I was going down the highway, but miserable in town.

This is what it looked like.

I forgot about that 7/33. Remember, that came from JB. It probably has 300,000 miles on it. 🙂 I'd be watching for a deal on another one, just in case that thing falls apart one day.

Mike

#5 · February 9, 2011, 3:17 pm

Hi Mike, that is the exact one I am looking to purchase, auto zone sells them for about $35. I actually took the gears from your 7/33, and put them in my housing in place of the 8/33. I was afraid to dis assemble the pinion, and use my bearing so I popped in the whole pinion/bearing assembly from the one you sent me. the rear drive is very quiet, and I run redline shockproof heavy in it.......Heck, that thing will probable outlive ME! hehehe Rick

#6 · February 9, 2011, 8:06 pm

Steering damper kits & hardware available here: http://www.storzperf.com/jpgs/page16.html

#7 · February 9, 2011, 8:33 pm

The Storz stuff is waaaaaaaay overpriced.

Lonnie

#8 · February 9, 2011, 9:06 pm

Hi Lonnie - am looking for an adaptor clamp for the steering damper that came with the used California Sidecar Friendship II I have. It was off a HD and the clamp that came with it is slightly too big. Where else can I find such clamps - I need a 39mm (to fit fork tube) or 61mm (to fit top of lower leg/slider).

Daryl

#9 · February 9, 2011, 9:29 pm

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/68/33253/ITEM/Shindy-Products-Universal-Fork-Brackets.aspx

#10 · February 10, 2011, 12:36 am

Bigbikerrick - 2/9/2011 9:38 AM

Hello folks, I want to put a VW steering damper on my Guzzi/ Friendship II rig, I have read that the older bug dampers have a longer" stroke". the longest I can find say for a 67 bug is 6.2" in a gabriel damper, I think a vW damper with mounting eyes on both ends may work out better than the one I mentioned that has a threaded arm on one end. can you folks give me some advice/suggestions on which damper to use, and what the stroke length is. also , do any of the sidecar equipment suppliers sell a damper" kit"? a damper that is adjustable for firmness would be the bee's knees! Thanks in advance, Rick.

I have a standard Harley damper on my TLE Harley sidecar. It measures 17" from the center of the rubber bushing to the center of the thread on the other end. Travel is 5-1/4" and compressed it is 11-3/4". I also have a replacement damper that I got from a VW aftermarket store as a spare. They appear and feel identical. Both are marked "Made in Brazil". The main difference is that the one from Harley retails for $129.95 while I paid $24.95 for the replacement.

One of those would be a good choice for your Guzzi. The European brand name ones are very expensve. With a little machine work and some ingenuity, you could mount one and be on your way. The only negative issue is that they are non-adjustable. Perhaps you could get around that by haviinge different connection holes on one end for a different feel.

Sometimes I see folks selling the Harley ones on eBay and I have to laugh at the prices they are asking.

Happy Trails. 🙂

#11 · February 10, 2011, 12:42 am

Thnx for that link Mike. I like those clamps... much thinner design. Might be able to fit one lower on the slider; i.e. adjacent to fender under the fat portion containing the seal. Where/how are most people installing their dampers? I've seen some really different setups... some of them that don't seem right to me. To my way of thinking the damper unit should be set up as close to perpindicular to the fork assy as possible, and the damper be located straight aft of the fork leg. I've seen many angled way off sideways!? Clamp to the fork tube... or to the lower slider?

... never mind. Found good info here: http://sidestrider.com/steering.htm

Daryl

#12 · February 10, 2011, 3:15 am

Thanks GNM, thats good to know, at least it wont be stiffer than the harley one. My Friendship II was originally on an older FLH , it came with a damper that looks like a regular shock absorber for a car, with a straight threaded rod on one end. that sucker was stiff, so I drilled a small hole in the end , tapped it, and drained all the fluid, I replaced the fluid with the thinnest oil I could find, 2.5 wt ( marvel mystery oil) It helped about 50%, but its still too stiff for my taste, except on the freeway at 65+ . I think I will get a VW damper ( about $35. at autozone), and maybe try to rig up a bellcrank type of arrangement. at one of the mount ends. I appreciate the info, for sure, Rick.

#13 · February 10, 2011, 8:27 am

The clamp on the fork leg was machined from a piece of scrap aircraft aluminum and a heim joint with a half inch hole and a bushing to fit the 10mm threaded end of the damper.
The universal pivot at the rear of the damper is my own construction from cold roll steel.
Device in on my DR650

Phelonius

#14 · February 10, 2011, 10:14 am

Daryl Martel - 2/9/2011 11:42 PM Thnx for that link Mike. I like those clamps... much thinner design. Might be able to fit one lower on the slider; i.e. adjacent to fender under the fat portion containing the seal. Where/how are most people installing their dampers? I've seen some really different setups... some of them that don't seem right to me. To my way of thinking the damper unit should be set up as close to perpindicular to the fork assy as possible, and the damper be located straight aft of the fork leg. I've seen many angled way off sideways!? Clamp to the fork tube... or to the lower slider? ... never mind. Found good info here: http://sidestrider.com/steering.htm Daryl

It seems to be whereever people find room. On my XS850, the previous owner had replaced a caliper bolt with a stud and nut, that the heim joint attached to. On the Goldwing/Hitchhiker. it was a glorified muffler clamp on the lower leg. My Guzzi has a factory one mounted between the frame and the lower triple tree. My GSXR and CBR both had it crosswise, above the upper tree.

I would think the shimmy starts at the wheel so it should be stopped there.

#15 · February 10, 2011, 10:14 am

Quote from gnm109 on February 10, 2011, 10:14 am
Bigbikerrick - 2/10/2011 12:15 AM

Thanks GNM, thats good to know, at least it wont be stiffer than the harley one. My Friendship II was originally on an older FLH , it came with a damper that looks like a regular shock absorber for a car, with a straight threaded rod on one end. that sucker was stiff, so I drilled a small hole in the end , tapped it, and drained all the fluid, I replaced the fluid with the thinnest oil I could find, 2.5 wt ( marvel mystery oil) It helped about 50%, but its still too stiff for my taste, except on the freeway at 65+ . I think I will get a VW damper ( about $35. at autozone), and maybe try to rig up a bellcrank type of arrangement. at one of the mount ends. I appreciate the info, for sure, Rick.

If you can get the VW type steering damper at Autozone for $35, that'about as good a price as you will find. They are $25 at various internet stores but shipiing usually adds another $10-12 anyway. When I buy anything on the internet anymore, I always check the shipping cost first. With some companies charging big shipping fees, it can be a deal breaker.

I wouldn't mount the moving end of the damper low on the fork since it would also be moving up and down with the slider. When I had my 1982 Shovelhead with '82 TLE sidecar, I used a VW damper with the fixed end on a clamp on the cross bar and the other end on the right fork tube just above the lower triple tree. It worked just like the later-model TLE dampers since it was basically in the same location.

In the old days before the era of gas-filled shocks, you could buy real 50-50 hydraulic shocks. They worked with the same pressure each direction. Nowadays, a gas-filled shock is always pushing to full length so you couldn't use one for a damper.

If I wanted to do a custom one, I would consider some form of a friction damper. I installed one on my TLE sidecar to keep it level and prevent bouncing on the springs. It works very well and it's completely adjustable. Mine uses leather washers as friction elements. It would be posslble to make one for a steering damper. Until about 30 years ago, frictioin steering dampers were common on most bikes. Early Harleys had them and also the early Honda Super Hawks and other touring models. Here are pictures of my device. The bolt in the center is used to add or remove pressure on the plates. It works nicely and keeps the tub from jumping around.

Bigbikerrick - 2/10/2011 12:15 AM

Thanks GNM, thats good to know, at least it wont be stiffer than the harley one. My Friendship II was originally on an older FLH , it came with a damper that looks like a regular shock absorber for a car, with a straight threaded rod on one end. that sucker was stiff, so I drilled a small hole in the end , tapped it, and drained all the fluid, I replaced the fluid with the thinnest oil I could find, 2.5 wt ( marvel mystery oil) It helped about 50%, but its still too stiff for my taste, except on the freeway at 65+ . I think I will get a VW damper ( about $35. at autozone), and maybe try to rig up a bellcrank type of arrangement. at one of the mount ends. I appreciate the info, for sure, Rick.

If you can get the VW type steering damper at Autozone for $35, that'about as good a price as you will find. They are $25 at various internet stores but shipiing usually adds another $10-12 anyway. When I buy anything on the internet anymore, I always check the shipping cost first. With some companies charging big shipping fees, it can be a deal breaker.

I wouldn't mount the moving end of the damper low on the fork since it would also be moving up and down with the slider. When I had my 1982 Shovelhead with '82 TLE sidecar, I used a VW damper with the fixed end on a clamp on the cross bar and the other end on the right fork tube just above the lower triple tree. It worked just like the later-model TLE dampers since it was basically in the same location.

In the old days before the era of gas-filled shocks, you could buy real 50-50 hydraulic shocks. They worked with the same pressure each direction. Nowadays, a gas-filled shock is always pushing to full length so you couldn't use one for a damper.

If I wanted to do a custom one, I would consider some form of a friction damper. I installed one on my TLE sidecar to keep it level and prevent bouncing on the springs. It works very well and it's completely adjustable. Mine uses leather washers as friction elements. It would be posslble to make one for a steering damper. Until about 30 years ago, frictioin steering dampers were common on most bikes. Early Harleys had them and also the early Honda Super Hawks and other touring models. Here are pictures of my device. The bolt in the center is used to add or remove pressure on the plates. It works nicely and keeps the tub from jumping around.

#16 · February 10, 2011, 11:18 am

The best mounting position for the damper on a Tubular fork front end is above the slider travel area since there is no change of angle during riding if mounted here, ergo no bump steering effect.
If mounted to the slider the damper should be at a 90 degree angle from the fork to limit bump steer since the slider is constantly changing length while under way.
There is some info on inexpensive damper mounting at the Sidecar Industry Council site.

Lonnie

#17 · February 10, 2011, 1:54 pm

Bigbikerick - what kind of bike are you hanging your Friendship II onto? I just went out and looked at my GL1100 (damn it's cold out!) and measured up the fork leg (52mm dia) below the thicker seal area. Because of the fairing, there's no way I can mount a damper unit up higher. Not sure what brand damper I have, but it's a "Made In USA" unit, P/N 81190-ORP or P1121. Can't find it Googling, but on eBay there's a bunch of "steering stabilizer"s that look similar. This one looks exactly like the one that came with my sidecar: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRW-AUTO-16221-Stabilizer-Kit-Steering-Damper-FAST-SHIP-/220730875135?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item336495dcff

(TRW AUTO 16221 for when this link dies)

#18 · February 12, 2011, 1:57 pm

Hi Daryl, I have my friendship II on a 2003 Moto Guzzi california Aluminum, the damper I have is similar to what you show, but its too stiff, thanks Rick

#19 · February 12, 2011, 2:05 pm

Does anyone know of a VW damper that has mounting holes at both ends , instead of a hole at one end and a threaded rod at the other end ( like an older bug damper) , and has adequate stroke, like the bug unit? I think the bug unit has about 6.5" of stroke length, which is barely enough. thanks Rick.

#20 · February 12, 2011, 2:24 pm

Just measured my damper, that 81190-ORR P/N, and it's stroke is about 8 3/4". That MotoGuzzi looks like a nice bike, always liked those engines. The LeMans is a classic!