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safer whole sale, and now RT
Quote from CCjon on February 25, 2019, 12:31 pmThanks for posting that Jay. Too bad it is the "new" sidecarists who are the ones who get taken. They get burnt on sidecars before they even have a chance to learn what a great experience they are.
How can the USCA get the word out on selecting the proper sidecar for your bike? That would be an excellent and much needed public service the USCA could provide.
Jan
USCA Secretary
Thanks for posting that Jay. Too bad it is the "new" sidecarists who are the ones who get taken. They get burnt on sidecars before they even have a chance to learn what a great experience they are.
How can the USCA get the word out on selecting the proper sidecar for your bike? That would be an excellent and much needed public service the USCA could provide.
Jan
USCA Secretary
Quote from MGV8 on March 2, 2019, 1:29 pmYes it is tough enough to figure out what you want with out the damn scam artists messing every one up. I bet many first timers are really put off by this.
Yes it is tough enough to figure out what you want with out the damn scam artists messing every one up. I bet many first timers are really put off by this.
Quote from jaydmc on March 22, 2019, 10:37 amIt looks like they have another name they are going by redwolf cycles, same sidecar from saferwhole sale just different badges https://redwolfsidecars.com/shop?olsPage=products
It looks like they have another name they are going by redwolf cycles, same sidecar from saferwhole sale just different badges https://redwolfsidecars.com/shop?olsPage=products
Quote from Al Olme2 on March 23, 2019, 11:38 amI agree with Jay most of the time. Still, we should hear what Red Wolf has to say so I spoke with the guy who has started Red Wolf. He said that he had been an employee at Inder before he came to the US [many years ago]. His claim is that although he admits that the sidecars are made by Inder, they are a different design, specifically, they are wider and they come with a heavier frame, they have superior mounting components and a 16" wheel [Inders come with a 19" wheel on their "motorcycle models"]. From what I've heard if they come with all the parts they'd be better that the product from Safer. I'm in no position to have an opinion on this because I haven't actually seen the sidecars but if Inder is the manufacturer I'd be cautious. Let's hope that he has the good sense to approach an appropriate market and NOT try to sell to owners of big bikes.
There are good, responsible suppliers out there for the mid to small size tug market. Kevin Mahoney at Cycle Sidecar is a good example, and he supports the USCA and this website as an advertiser. He states plainly on his site, "There are considerations such as power of the bike, size, weight of the bike and sidecar etc. A reputable manufacturer or dealer will advise you openly and honestly about what will work for your application".
I hope that the guy running Red Wolf is good at his word and this is an improved product but for the moment, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
I agree with Jay most of the time. Still, we should hear what Red Wolf has to say so I spoke with the guy who has started Red Wolf. He said that he had been an employee at Inder before he came to the US [many years ago]. His claim is that although he admits that the sidecars are made by Inder, they are a different design, specifically, they are wider and they come with a heavier frame, they have superior mounting components and a 16" wheel [Inders come with a 19" wheel on their "motorcycle models"]. From what I've heard if they come with all the parts they'd be better that the product from Safer. I'm in no position to have an opinion on this because I haven't actually seen the sidecars but if Inder is the manufacturer I'd be cautious. Let's hope that he has the good sense to approach an appropriate market and NOT try to sell to owners of big bikes.
There are good, responsible suppliers out there for the mid to small size tug market. Kevin Mahoney at Cycle Sidecar is a good example, and he supports the USCA and this website as an advertiser. He states plainly on his site, "There are considerations such as power of the bike, size, weight of the bike and sidecar etc. A reputable manufacturer or dealer will advise you openly and honestly about what will work for your application".
I hope that the guy running Red Wolf is good at his word and this is an improved product but for the moment, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Quote from jaydmc on September 10, 2019, 9:47 amJust a bump back to the top. It gets old trying to help people that this company ripped off and sold products that if used as intended are some what less then "safe" assuming that they can even be attached.
We are always willing to try and help but more often then not we end up having to tell people that the small poorly built sidecar that they purchased has no business on a bike as large as what ever they are trying to put it on.
Jay G
DMC sidecarswww.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Just a bump back to the top. It gets old trying to help people that this company ripped off and sold products that if used as intended are some what less then "safe" assuming that they can even be attached.
We are always willing to try and help but more often then not we end up having to tell people that the small poorly built sidecar that they purchased has no business on a bike as large as what ever they are trying to put it on.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from jaydmc on November 4, 2019, 12:00 pmI just found out once again that Safer Whole sales is advertising our sidecars for sale on their site http://www.saferwholesale.com/Kenna-Side-Car-Motorcycle-Sidecar-Kit-Fits-All-p/nsc-kennad-sidecar-allmodels.htm Again this is not the first time they have done this!
We have nothing to do with this company. Nor have we ever! All I can figure is that it is some kind of bait and switch that they are doing. or for some reason want to make us look bad. I have filed a complaint with the state of Illinois AG office ( oag2019-000074504 )
Our sidecars are not priced at the price they have them listed. And our sidecars are safe on larger bikes, they can do more then 55 mph and they come with proper bike specific NOT universal mounting hardware.
Jay G
DMC sidecarswww.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
I just found out once again that Safer Whole sales is advertising our sidecars for sale on their site http://www.saferwholesale.com/Kenna-Side-Car-Motorcycle-Sidecar-Kit-Fits-All-p/nsc-kennad-sidecar-allmodels.htm Again this is not the first time they have done this!
We have nothing to do with this company. Nor have we ever! All I can figure is that it is some kind of bait and switch that they are doing. or for some reason want to make us look bad. I have filed a complaint with the state of Illinois AG office ( oag2019-000074504 )
Our sidecars are not priced at the price they have them listed. And our sidecars are safe on larger bikes, they can do more then 55 mph and they come with proper bike specific NOT universal mounting hardware.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from jaydmc on March 4, 2020, 10:51 amBump to the top as its important.
Today some one with a safewhole sale sidecar just contact me to buy a mount set to put one of these sidecars onto a 1600cc Yamaha. This can never be a safe match up and yet they were more then happy to sell him the sidecar.
Jay G
DMC sidecars866-638-1793
Bump to the top as its important.
Today some one with a safewhole sale sidecar just contact me to buy a mount set to put one of these sidecars onto a 1600cc Yamaha. This can never be a safe match up and yet they were more then happy to sell him the sidecar.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from jaydmc on March 5, 2020, 2:54 pmJust had some one with a Red Wolf sidecar wanting mounts for a VTX 1300, had to pass on the sale, this can and never will be a safe match up. Had to pass on the sale but evidently Red Wolf thinks that it is fine as are their mounts. I got the impression that they are going to go ahead and figure out how to mount the sidecar anyway. If Red Wolf really feels that this is going to be safe, why not provide proper mounts? It could be that they MIGHT be out of business as their web page say's that it is "parked"
Jay G
DMC sidecars866-638-1793
Just had some one with a Red Wolf sidecar wanting mounts for a VTX 1300, had to pass on the sale, this can and never will be a safe match up. Had to pass on the sale but evidently Red Wolf thinks that it is fine as are their mounts. I got the impression that they are going to go ahead and figure out how to mount the sidecar anyway. If Red Wolf really feels that this is going to be safe, why not provide proper mounts? It could be that they MIGHT be out of business as their web page say's that it is "parked"
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from CCjon on March 6, 2020, 8:59 amJay, thank you for keeping us up to date with the "Safe whole sale" evolving identities.
It's about time all the various sidecar manufacturer's, safety councils and USCA work together to promote sidecar safety. It hurts the image and reputation of all of us every time the unknowing public buys a poorly built or mis-matched rig.
Jay, thank you for keeping us up to date with the "Safe whole sale" evolving identities.
It's about time all the various sidecar manufacturer's, safety councils and USCA work together to promote sidecar safety. It hurts the image and reputation of all of us every time the unknowing public buys a poorly built or mis-matched rig.
Quote from AceinSav on March 6, 2020, 11:38 amQuote from CCjon on March 6, 2020, 8:59 amJay, thank you for keeping us up to date with the "Safe whole sale" evolving identities.
It's about time all the various sidecar manufacturer's, safety councils and USCA work together to promote sidecar safety. It hurts the image and reputation of all of us every time the unknowing public buys a poorly built or mis-matched rig.
+1 not to mention the real concern that someone could be seriously injured or worse due to this bad business practice
Quote from CCjon on March 6, 2020, 8:59 amJay, thank you for keeping us up to date with the "Safe whole sale" evolving identities.
It's about time all the various sidecar manufacturer's, safety councils and USCA work together to promote sidecar safety. It hurts the image and reputation of all of us every time the unknowing public buys a poorly built or mis-matched rig.
+1 not to mention the real concern that someone could be seriously injured or worse due to this bad business practice
Quote from jaydmc on March 6, 2020, 1:15 pmBack in the late 1990's we did start up a sidecar industry council, the idea was to set standards and police the industry. I had only started my company on paper at that point as we had no products at all and were still working on importing our first container load of Sputnik sidecars from Russia. I was elected secretary / treasurer. The person elected president (now dead) had different ideas as to what the council should be. He was using council funds to promote a sidecar gathering he held yearly. When I refused to pay the bills for "his" event he sent a letter out to everyone saying that he relived me of the position then stole all of the SIC funds. As no one knew who I was at the time he got away with it and for years companies were paying dues to the SIC and the only thing being done with these moneys was to line his pocket promoting his event. The other thing he did which I was opposed to was he wanted to make it such that any time an "expert" witness was needed due to law suite's was to have an SIC person be the expert so that we could "all band together" At the time he was proud that he had been sued some thing like 5 times and never lost. (you have to have assets to not have a law suit simply dropped) That was pretty much the demise of the SIC. In the end this is such a small industry and no one is getting rich as such not much extra money for some thing like the SIC. What I would really like to see is government regulations, this would eliminate most of the safety issues from these importers as well as several of the smaller companies building here in the USA where safety is "third" I have seen some really scary stuff even from made in the USA companies. One company attaches their sidecars with 4 solid bars that they heat and bend to fit the sidecar leaving no possible way to ever adjust anything. Then these bars are attached to welded on tabs on the motorcycle. We had some one drive from several states away (while dress as "batman") to have us fix one of these sidecars as it had a constant pull due to one of the welded on tabs bending. The repair to do right would have cost more then he paid for the sidecar as there was little that was up to any modern manufacturing standard and I refused to "patch" up a fundamentally flawed sidecar as we do have a safety first policy, and yet this company is building sidecars to this day.
In the end BUYER BEWARE if some thing is far less money then it is from other companies, there usually is a reason why.
Jay G
DMC sidecars866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
Back in the late 1990's we did start up a sidecar industry council, the idea was to set standards and police the industry. I had only started my company on paper at that point as we had no products at all and were still working on importing our first container load of Sputnik sidecars from Russia. I was elected secretary / treasurer. The person elected president (now dead) had different ideas as to what the council should be. He was using council funds to promote a sidecar gathering he held yearly. When I refused to pay the bills for "his" event he sent a letter out to everyone saying that he relived me of the position then stole all of the SIC funds. As no one knew who I was at the time he got away with it and for years companies were paying dues to the SIC and the only thing being done with these moneys was to line his pocket promoting his event. The other thing he did which I was opposed to was he wanted to make it such that any time an "expert" witness was needed due to law suite's was to have an SIC person be the expert so that we could "all band together" At the time he was proud that he had been sued some thing like 5 times and never lost. (you have to have assets to not have a law suit simply dropped) That was pretty much the demise of the SIC. In the end this is such a small industry and no one is getting rich as such not much extra money for some thing like the SIC. What I would really like to see is government regulations, this would eliminate most of the safety issues from these importers as well as several of the smaller companies building here in the USA where safety is "third" I have seen some really scary stuff even from made in the USA companies. One company attaches their sidecars with 4 solid bars that they heat and bend to fit the sidecar leaving no possible way to ever adjust anything. Then these bars are attached to welded on tabs on the motorcycle. We had some one drive from several states away (while dress as "batman") to have us fix one of these sidecars as it had a constant pull due to one of the welded on tabs bending. The repair to do right would have cost more then he paid for the sidecar as there was little that was up to any modern manufacturing standard and I refused to "patch" up a fundamentally flawed sidecar as we do have a safety first policy, and yet this company is building sidecars to this day.
In the end BUYER BEWARE if some thing is far less money then it is from other companies, there usually is a reason why.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from jaydmc on October 6, 2020, 1:28 pmToday I had some one I had been working with on figuring out the best way to meet his financial needs tell me that he no longer needs anything but the mounting hardware as he got a great deal on one of these sidecars. I declined the sale even though we had everything that would be needed in stock. His bike, a 2018 Indian Chief. Safety must come first. This is another case where some one could not afford to do it right, will end up spending more money then had they waited until they could afford to do it right.
Jay G
DMC sidecarswww.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Today I had some one I had been working with on figuring out the best way to meet his financial needs tell me that he no longer needs anything but the mounting hardware as he got a great deal on one of these sidecars. I declined the sale even though we had everything that would be needed in stock. His bike, a 2018 Indian Chief. Safety must come first. This is another case where some one could not afford to do it right, will end up spending more money then had they waited until they could afford to do it right.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from Tax Man on October 6, 2020, 1:49 pmWith some people it is like Walt Kelly's Pogo when he said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
With some people it is like Walt Kelly's Pogo when he said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Quote from CCjon on October 6, 2020, 3:18 pmJay, do you still have any guidelines for sidecar industry safety materials. I would like to see USCA form an Industry Council under its banner. As you said, we are such a small niche market, it only makes sense to band together to support each other, manufacturers, dealers, vendors and owners.
I spoke with Kent at Texas Sidecars about this topic last weekend. We need to work out the format and premise before presenting it to the USCA Board for discussion.
Anything you can contribute to the idea would be appreciated. Please contact me direct: roving96535@mypacks.net
Jan Daub aka CCjon
USCA VP
2021 Rallymaster
Jay, do you still have any guidelines for sidecar industry safety materials. I would like to see USCA form an Industry Council under its banner. As you said, we are such a small niche market, it only makes sense to band together to support each other, manufacturers, dealers, vendors and owners.
I spoke with Kent at Texas Sidecars about this topic last weekend. We need to work out the format and premise before presenting it to the USCA Board for discussion.
Anything you can contribute to the idea would be appreciated. Please contact me direct: roving96535@mypacks.net
Jan Daub aka CCjon
USCA VP
2021 Rallymaster
Quote from jaydmc on January 4, 2021, 10:21 amJust had some one contacting us for "up graded" mounts to put a "Red Wolf" sidecar on his FLH. Safety third! Price first. Of course we would not help him other then to recommend a stronger better built sidecar. Another person with limited means that is now worse off then they would have been had then done their home work.
Jay G
DMC sidecarswww.dmcsidecars.com/sidecars
Just had some one contacting us for "up graded" mounts to put a "Red Wolf" sidecar on his FLH. Safety third! Price first. Of course we would not help him other then to recommend a stronger better built sidecar. Another person with limited means that is now worse off then they would have been had then done their home work.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
http://www.dmcsidecars.com/sidecars
Quote from CCjon on January 4, 2021, 10:41 amJay, Happy New Years to you and the whole crew at DMC. Thank you for trying to keep all sidecar owners safe.
Am not sure there is a way to warn the "jump first, look later" people. Though I have to admit to committing the same error on occasion on different matters. Your patience with them will pay off in the long run if they decide to stay with sidecars.
Jay, Happy New Years to you and the whole crew at DMC. Thank you for trying to keep all sidecar owners safe.
Am not sure there is a way to warn the "jump first, look later" people. Though I have to admit to committing the same error on occasion on different matters. Your patience with them will pay off in the long run if they decide to stay with sidecars.
Quote from Gary Shearer on January 5, 2021, 10:46 pmOnly this to say. Years ago I bought a used sidecar and brought it home. After much work and cost I had it mounted to my tug and wife and I took off on a trip. About 120 miles later I pulled into a gas station and had only one wheel brake. I called DMC and Jay had me drive the 300 or so miles to his place for repairs. He even found out there were a few other minor issues which he corrected. We then left on an extended and great trip.
This year when I wanted a new rig and simply called DMC and went to Washington to review what was available. I ordered a rig from DMC and when I brought it home and mounted it to my Harley I can only say "Thanks Jay". Putting miles on it now.
Only this to say. Years ago I bought a used sidecar and brought it home. After much work and cost I had it mounted to my tug and wife and I took off on a trip. About 120 miles later I pulled into a gas station and had only one wheel brake. I called DMC and Jay had me drive the 300 or so miles to his place for repairs. He even found out there were a few other minor issues which he corrected. We then left on an extended and great trip.
This year when I wanted a new rig and simply called DMC and went to Washington to review what was available. I ordered a rig from DMC and when I brought it home and mounted it to my Harley I can only say "Thanks Jay". Putting miles on it now.
Quote from jaydmc on February 15, 2021, 8:56 amI just had forwarded to me an email from Mathew at Saferwhole sale asking another importer of sidecars from India for PDF files as to how to install a Rocket sidecar. Really asking a competitor how to install the sidecar that they import and sell! At least it would appear that they area at least trying to help some one. BUT why would then not simply go to their supplier for this? And of course, why would they not already have it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
I just had forwarded to me an email from Mathew at Saferwhole sale asking another importer of sidecars from India for PDF files as to how to install a Rocket sidecar. Really asking a competitor how to install the sidecar that they import and sell! At least it would appear that they area at least trying to help some one. BUT why would then not simply go to their supplier for this? And of course, why would they not already have it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
Quote from Neville L Te Brugge on February 21, 2021, 9:51 amI first bought an Inder from Safer wholesale and then found out what they were doing. Shortly after that I found thatyt one of my friends had a brand new Ural which was too heavy for his old Bmw 500 so he had gone to a fiberglass rig. and the ural had never been attached. I got it off him for a very very good price and that is what I have now. Any how one day a truck rolls up with the Ural looking Inder and surprise surprise it was all there when I inventoried the crate. So I looked at the construction of the frame and being a lifer welder as well as a Certified Welding Inspector I was surprised to find that the actual construction of the car frame was really not too shabby unless you were going to carry a heavy load. The mounting stuff is not well designed and I believe that each model of motorcycle has a unique requirement to be able to manage a sidecar, so apart from the wheel bearings I think that the car if correctly mounted should be OK. Its not a Ural by any means or in the same class as the reputable US made sidecars but on a lighter bike I do not see any reason not to use it, after a good inspection and correction of anything that is doubtful like the bearings. I have a friend who has a Safe Wholesale Rocketeer that he wants to put on an old shovel to haul stuff like groceries etc so I will be working with him to make it happen As to the Ural knock off I have its for sale at $2200 fob your shipper Greenville SC
I have no doubt that there are an awful lot of Inders running around that have been sold under a lot of names over the years by various importers and simply rebadged. Not everybody is as fortunate as we are, so they do the best they can with what they have been able to afford.
Chuck
I first bought an Inder from Safer wholesale and then found out what they were doing. Shortly after that I found thatyt one of my friends had a brand new Ural which was too heavy for his old Bmw 500 so he had gone to a fiberglass rig. and the ural had never been attached. I got it off him for a very very good price and that is what I have now. Any how one day a truck rolls up with the Ural looking Inder and surprise surprise it was all there when I inventoried the crate. So I looked at the construction of the frame and being a lifer welder as well as a Certified Welding Inspector I was surprised to find that the actual construction of the car frame was really not too shabby unless you were going to carry a heavy load. The mounting stuff is not well designed and I believe that each model of motorcycle has a unique requirement to be able to manage a sidecar, so apart from the wheel bearings I think that the car if correctly mounted should be OK. Its not a Ural by any means or in the same class as the reputable US made sidecars but on a lighter bike I do not see any reason not to use it, after a good inspection and correction of anything that is doubtful like the bearings. I have a friend who has a Safe Wholesale Rocketeer that he wants to put on an old shovel to haul stuff like groceries etc so I will be working with him to make it happen As to the Ural knock off I have its for sale at $2200 fob your shipper Greenville SC
I have no doubt that there are an awful lot of Inders running around that have been sold under a lot of names over the years by various importers and simply rebadged. Not everybody is as fortunate as we are, so they do the best they can with what they have been able to afford.
Chuck