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Pulls hard to the right
Quote from Guest on April 30, 2008, 1:27 pmHi everyone,
Am new to this sidecar stuff. Just purchased a 2002 RoadKing with a 2007 Sidecar. It pulls hard to the right, and when I asked the dealer he said they all do. I don't agree, but I am new to all of this. I have had Harleys for 20 plus years, and find it hard to believe this is the way a sidecar is driven. The bike leans into the car about 1 degree. The dealer said this is what the manual requires. Every place else I read says about 3/4 inch tow in and 1 to 3 degrees of lean away from the car. Am I missing something here or is Harley wrong?? Any comments would be appreciated.
Hi everyone,
Am new to this sidecar stuff. Just purchased a 2002 RoadKing with a 2007 Sidecar. It pulls hard to the right, and when I asked the dealer he said they all do. I don't agree, but I am new to all of this. I have had Harleys for 20 plus years, and find it hard to believe this is the way a sidecar is driven. The bike leans into the car about 1 degree. The dealer said this is what the manual requires. Every place else I read says about 3/4 inch tow in and 1 to 3 degrees of lean away from the car. Am I missing something here or is Harley wrong?? Any comments would be appreciated.
Quote from Guest on April 30, 2008, 1:42 pmyour dealer is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
they dont all pull to the right..OK, maybe all the ones HE sets up.
the lean out should be at least straight up or a little out from the SC. Only way to check this is by adjusting it out a little and try it on a road similar to the ones you would normally ride..at speed of around 60-65 with throttle nueteral. there should be NO pull,. left or right.
the Harley manual sets it with lean in because of the solid suspension on the SC.but in real life this dont work.
once you set it up right with no pull, go over to the so called dealer and tell him to ride it. Surprise!!!!
your dealer is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
they dont all pull to the right..OK, maybe all the ones HE sets up.
the lean out should be at least straight up or a little out from the SC. Only way to check this is by adjusting it out a little and try it on a road similar to the ones you would normally ride..at speed of around 60-65 with throttle nueteral. there should be NO pull,. left or right.
the Harley manual sets it with lean in because of the solid suspension on the SC.but in real life this dont work.
once you set it up right with no pull, go over to the so called dealer and tell him to ride it. Surprise!!!!
Quote from Hack__n on April 30, 2008, 1:56 pmThe Manual is written with a specific driver weight in mind. These are initial settings that have to be tweaked to the individual rig loadings and road surfaces encountered in the real world.
I've found almost all Harley rigs work better with leanout regardless of the make of sidecar attached.
"0" leanout loaded, on a level surface equals a rig that will pull to the right on a crowned road. It will be leaning to the right and will take the path of least resistance.
About 1 degree lean-out loaded has worked well for me (US&Canadian roads).Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
The Manual is written with a specific driver weight in mind. These are initial settings that have to be tweaked to the individual rig loadings and road surfaces encountered in the real world.
I've found almost all Harley rigs work better with leanout regardless of the make of sidecar attached.
"0" leanout loaded, on a level surface equals a rig that will pull to the right on a crowned road. It will be leaning to the right and will take the path of least resistance.
About 1 degree lean-out loaded has worked well for me (US&Canadian roads).
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Quote from Rotten Ralph on April 30, 2008, 6:52 pmI had exactly the same problem. Bought an '03 Road King from the original owner. The bike was set up by his dealer and the owner really didn't ride it much. After my first week on this rig I knew I had to readjust things - pull to the right was tiring to say the least! I took the lean from one degree in to one degree out. Toe-in went from 3/4" to 1/2". Now the rig is neutral on anything but a crowned road and fun to ride.
I had exactly the same problem. Bought an '03 Road King from the original owner. The bike was set up by his dealer and the owner really didn't ride it much. After my first week on this rig I knew I had to readjust things - pull to the right was tiring to say the least! I took the lean from one degree in to one degree out. Toe-in went from 3/4" to 1/2". Now the rig is neutral on anything but a crowned road and fun to ride.
Quote from claude #3563 on April 30, 2008, 8:38 pmJust remember...lean it out left to keep it from going right and lean it right to keep it from going left.Keep toe in miniaml as possible between 1/2 and 3/4"...Too much toe in will increase tire wear.
Many dealers fankly know about as much about sidecars as we do on how to perform brain surgery. For anyone to make a statement like he did is an instant tip off that he knows nothing and has not even taken the time to try and learn. It is sad but some have even been known to argue the point just because some manual said something and then come actross with some kind of condesceneding attitude if anyone tries to say diferent. Dunno if this is the case here but if he wants to ride all day with a sidecar pulling hard to the right let him go. That is if he has even ever ridden oen farther than around the dealership.
Please excuse me but this kind of stuff hits a nerve in me sometimes...LOL.
Just remember...lean it out left to keep it from going right and lean it right to keep it from going left.Keep toe in miniaml as possible between 1/2 and 3/4"...Too much toe in will increase tire wear.
Many dealers fankly know about as much about sidecars as we do on how to perform brain surgery. For anyone to make a statement like he did is an instant tip off that he knows nothing and has not even taken the time to try and learn. It is sad but some have even been known to argue the point just because some manual said something and then come actross with some kind of condesceneding attitude if anyone tries to say diferent. Dunno if this is the case here but if he wants to ride all day with a sidecar pulling hard to the right let him go. That is if he has even ever ridden oen farther than around the dealership.
Please excuse me but this kind of stuff hits a nerve in me sometimes...LOL.
Quote from Guest on April 30, 2008, 8:45 pm1 degree lean-in might pull to the right but it shouldn't pull HARD to the right. Your toe-in might need to be increased.
If the toe-in is correct, and the problem is "pulling to the right", then left turning should also be difficult.
Also be sure that the sidecar axle is horizontal (level on a level surface).
This is all listed in section 1, Troubleshooting, of the H-D Service manual. Ask the Service Manager (politely) if the two of you can review the manual together and come up with a solution. Dealers do very few set-ups simply because they sell very few sidecars.
If the Service Manager is a jerk and insists on the manual set-up, go home and call Harley-Davidson Corporate Technical....
Sidecar set-ups are like NASCAR set-ups....no two are alike.
1 degree lean-in might pull to the right but it shouldn't pull HARD to the right. Your toe-in might need to be increased.
If the toe-in is correct, and the problem is "pulling to the right", then left turning should also be difficult.
Also be sure that the sidecar axle is horizontal (level on a level surface).
This is all listed in section 1, Troubleshooting, of the H-D Service manual. Ask the Service Manager (politely) if the two of you can review the manual together and come up with a solution. Dealers do very few set-ups simply because they sell very few sidecars.
If the Service Manager is a jerk and insists on the manual set-up, go home and call Harley-Davidson Corporate Technical....
Sidecar set-ups are like NASCAR set-ups....no two are alike.
Quote from Guest on April 30, 2008, 9:27 pmI really do appreciate all of your replys. I will see the dealer this weekend and order my own manual. It only makes sense from a physics standpoint that if a bike leans right it will go right, or at least want too. Hard to be patience when your not sure though. I have a 3 year old grandson who just loves the car and bike. I want it to be safe. I will let everyone know how I fare. Have a trip to Alaska on my Heritage in June so don't know if I will have this figured out by then. Will let you know.
I really do appreciate all of your replys. I will see the dealer this weekend and order my own manual. It only makes sense from a physics standpoint that if a bike leans right it will go right, or at least want too. Hard to be patience when your not sure though. I have a 3 year old grandson who just loves the car and bike. I want it to be safe. I will let everyone know how I fare. Have a trip to Alaska on my Heritage in June so don't know if I will have this figured out by then. Will let you know.
Quote from Guest on April 30, 2008, 9:48 pmGo here http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp and download the Sidecar Manual. Look at Section 2.
Go here http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp and download the Sidecar Manual. Look at Section 2.
Quote from claude #3563 on April 30, 2008, 9:50 pmThe manual has been changed back and forth some from what I have heard. Thta is not th eissue really. Lena left go left and visa versa is the key.
It is true that some harley will do well with some static lean in. This is because th esidecar has no suspension on it. When th ebike is loaded with the rider it wil compress th ebike's suspension. When th epassenger gets into the sidecar very little happens. So if th erider is a 300 pounder he may run lean in bu twhen he gets onto the bike that may change to lean out...get it? It is how the bike goes down the road that counts.Fine tuning betwen lean out and toe in can take some time but those who are willing to deal with it will do well and end up with a rig that handles as best it can for what it is. Note that a well setup harly/harley does handle quite well.
The manual has been changed back and forth some from what I have heard. Thta is not th eissue really. Lena left go left and visa versa is the key.
It is true that some harley will do well with some static lean in. This is because th esidecar has no suspension on it. When th ebike is loaded with the rider it wil compress th ebike's suspension. When th epassenger gets into the sidecar very little happens. So if th erider is a 300 pounder he may run lean in bu twhen he gets onto the bike that may change to lean out...get it? It is how the bike goes down the road that counts.Fine tuning betwen lean out and toe in can take some time but those who are willing to deal with it will do well and end up with a rig that handles as best it can for what it is. Note that a well setup harly/harley does handle quite well.
Quote from Guest on May 7, 2008, 4:16 pmClaude....
I, too, have had a bit of a pull to the right. So, I guess I need a bit more lean out. Looking for the big wrenches as we "speak".
Uber
Claude....
I, too, have had a bit of a pull to the right. So, I guess I need a bit more lean out. Looking for the big wrenches as we "speak".
Uber
Quote from Guest on May 7, 2008, 6:41 pmJust wanted to throw my 2cents in. When I fitted the sidecar (not Harley) to my Road King I just stuck to the figures that were found around this site. 3/4 toe in 11" sidecar wheel lead. I set the lean by eye allowing for our normal road camber and my bulk. The result was 2 fingers at any speed up to 80mph without a steering damper. Never touched a strut from that initial set up. Added a leading link front end and got lighter cornering as well but thats another story. I think the harley makes a great tug. Just look at it with weight as per your normal load and make it look straight on the roads you normaly travel on. This will probably mean a slight lean away from the sidecar. No need to get out the theodolite and measure angles the seat of your pants is good enough.
Tim
Just wanted to throw my 2cents in. When I fitted the sidecar (not Harley) to my Road King I just stuck to the figures that were found around this site. 3/4 toe in 11" sidecar wheel lead. I set the lean by eye allowing for our normal road camber and my bulk. The result was 2 fingers at any speed up to 80mph without a steering damper. Never touched a strut from that initial set up. Added a leading link front end and got lighter cornering as well but thats another story. I think the harley makes a great tug. Just look at it with weight as per your normal load and make it look straight on the roads you normaly travel on. This will probably mean a slight lean away from the sidecar. No need to get out the theodolite and measure angles the seat of your pants is good enough.
Tim
Quote from Guest on May 7, 2008, 7:11 pmUM....
Two fingers to the left. I usually do 2 fingers from the bottom. But hey, I will try this one too. No pull, just a slight tendency to go that way with hands off. After about an 1/8 of mile. My shoulders are still the same size.
UM....
Two fingers to the left. I usually do 2 fingers from the bottom. But hey, I will try this one too. No pull, just a slight tendency to go that way with hands off. After about an 1/8 of mile. My shoulders are still the same size.
Quote from claude #3563 on May 7, 2008, 7:38 pmGood post whitsundaytattoo with as lot of truth to it. We sometimes get bound up with numbers that really cannot apply to all rigs due to many reasons.
The basics are lean it out to go left and lean it in to go right. From there reduce toe in to increase tire wear.
Too much lead will give harder steering and too little lead will make the rig dip the nose in turns away from the sidecar.
If the sidecar is too tipsy in turns into the sidecar add some ballast and reset the thing.Never put ballast in the sidecar nose area.
If the rig has too much 'roll' in turns away from the sidecar add a stiffer shock.
Wider stance equates to more stability.
These are most of the basics with no numbers applied.
Good post whitsundaytattoo with as lot of truth to it. We sometimes get bound up with numbers that really cannot apply to all rigs due to many reasons.
The basics are lean it out to go left and lean it in to go right. From there reduce toe in to increase tire wear.
Too much lead will give harder steering and too little lead will make the rig dip the nose in turns away from the sidecar.
If the sidecar is too tipsy in turns into the sidecar add some ballast and reset the thing.Never put ballast in the sidecar nose area.
If the rig has too much 'roll' in turns away from the sidecar add a stiffer shock.
Wider stance equates to more stability.
These are most of the basics with no numbers applied.