One persons belief that airhead BMW's should not be used for sidecars • One persons belief that airhead BMW's should not be used for sidecars • USCA Sidecar Forum • United Sidecar Association %

#1 · November 19, 2003, 9:33 am

On another list the following question and answer was recently posted re: suitability of bmw's for the attachment of sidecars. Any thoughts from this group with the argument made?

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Yes. Get full safety gear including body armor. It might keep you
alive when the rear drive frags and spits you off the rig. But I doubt it. Not one piece of the R80 is designed for sidecar duty. BMW has expressly and repeatedly stated "Our motocycles are Not intended or recommended to be used with sidecars of any type."

Of course there are hundreds of people out there who are running
sidecars on BMW Airheads. All of them will tell you that BMW is just covering their butt. Except the dead ones. Do a little research, and you will discover that the list of dead ones is impressive.

I know I am often criticized on this list as being too quick to
condemn certain practices. I'll take that heat gladly, if it prevents one rider from making a foolish mistake. I attended a memorial service for a fellow rider who died on the road last week, and I don't like it any better each time it happens. There are enough ways for us to get killed and injured while riding without building more.

All of that being said, if you persist, address ALL of the R80 weak
points. This will include installing different design fork, wheels and rear swingarm/drive, as well as reinforcing the brakes and frame. Please don't post back for instructions on how to do this. I wouldn't do it, and won't describe how to do it.

#2 · November 19, 2003, 1:45 pm

Wow!
I guess that will get all of those thousands of Beemer rigs off the roads of the world. (They are too darn quiet anyway).
Every manufacturer who doesn't make a sidecar specific motorcycle claims their products are not designed to accept a sidecar (or certain other accessories). Do the words "Product liability disclaimer" mean anything to you?

A smiling Harley and Honda rigs owner who has just finished mounting a Bavarian Classic on a Beemer. (Oil & water cooled of course).

#3 · November 21, 2003, 9:10 pm

So a Ural would be a better mechanically sound choice for SC duty than an Air head? Should anybody running anything other than a Harley or an EML park it immediately?

#4 · November 21, 2003, 9:42 pm

Wes wrote:
>> I attended a memorial service for a fellow rider who died on the road last week, and I don't like it any better each time it happens. There are enough ways for us to get killed and injured while riding without building more.<<
Wes,
Sorry to hear about indeed. I have been riding bikes for fourty years and hacks for close to twenty. Yes..it is sad when one of our own is lost and I have seen it happen too. No..it doesn't get any better either.
If we all went by what you proposed it would not stop with BMW airheads. The only sidecars on the road would be Harleys, Urals and Muz outfits along with a couple other russian and chinese rigs and maybe a vintage scooter or indian.
What caused the accident? You alluded to a rear end failure.

#5 · November 30, 2003, 1:15 am

The quote is not mine, but from someone else on another list, so I don't know the details of the accident.

#6 · November 30, 2003, 8:31 am

Sorry Wes...Dumb error on my part. Should have read it closer. I guess the replies here are to the one 'on the other list' then?
Claude

#7 · November 30, 2003, 8:47 am

Wow, what an opinion! Evidently he does not like Airheads! My experience of about 6 years with Airhead/sidecar rig is that it is high maintenance due to its design ere (60's). I have run '81 Goldwings with sidecars for 17 years, only because it is less maintenance. Comparitively speaking, the Beemer is a "spors car" and my old Wing is a "pickup truck" and built heavier. But I still miss the lightness and the sound of a Boxer twin. I triler my rig behind my motor home, full timing, so need abike with less maintenance. Did the original writer ever own a BMW ? Doug in TX

#8 · January 8, 2004, 1:58 am

The initial post was from me ... have purchased a Velorex to connect with my R80 Mono. Any thoughts on how to strengthen the frame, if its required?

Also, should I increase the weight of rig?

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#9 · January 8, 2004, 3:30 pm

Faulkner,
The R80 will need a sub-frame to install the hack correctly.
If you are going off paved roads the swing-arm and axle should be beefed up, also the sidecar shock, or at least the shock leverage should be increased to provide a more solid outfit. The Velorex frame will hold up well with this bike. For off road use I fabricate my own swing-arm that
utilizes a 1" axle w/Timken bearings and an automotive wheel. If you e-mail pix of your bike, I can send you pix and info on a sub-frame you can build yourself if none are available locally. It would be for a right side mounted car but you just have to flip it for you lefties.
I'm at nwsidecar@aol.com.

#10 · January 12, 2004, 3:41 pm

Adding my 2 cents:
Owned two BMWs, both R-69S/2 model. The 1958 I got new from the factory in Munich when stationed in Germany in USAF but rode it only solo for two years.
The second[a 1959]I bought very [ab]used a few years later and after completely rebuilding it, hung a new BMW Hollandia on it and ran it for about six years. LOTS of FUN and no problems other than regular maintenance[oil changes, a new battery, rear tire, etc.]and really LOVED the Earls front forks for sidecar use.
Now, there are many folks out there who have done an engine upgrade on the /2 models,[there's even a Yahoo Group just on BMW /2 engine conversions] hanging R-75 engines and one I saw last summer with an R-90 engine in it. The nice gentleman was running a Ural hack on it and he and his wife LOVED the unit! The conversion was done very professionally.
I will have to admit that the frame on the /5 models I've seen are a LOT thinner than my /2 frame was, so I'll remain neutral on the BMWs manufactured after 1969, when the /5 models were first released here.

#11 · January 12, 2004, 11:37 pm

The "danger" alluded to in the message seems to be that the final drive "frags", causing immediate loss of control that has, according to the author, been fatal in one situation.

I've built and abused several airhead sidecar outfits. The only failure I've had with a (double sided swing arm type) final drive is when a repaired spline tore it's welds off, about two years after I flew the rig through the air during the LA-Barsto-Las Vegas dual sport ride. I've never had, or seen a catastrophic failure of an airhead final drive.

I have seen wire spoked Honda 750 rear wheels suddenly "fragged" (collapsed) but I never owned one. I've had front drum brakes (Moto Guzzi with well worn linings) suddenly high center. I've completely worn out the final gears in a Moto Guzzi from oil pumping up into the trans, but the fragged gears didn't cause loss of control. I've heard of an Earles fork fragging, but it turned out the owner had done some suspicious welding on the downtubes. I've had a couple of catastrophic airhead engine failures that I could definitely describe as "fragging" (as in "fragment"). In both situations I simply squeezed the clutch and coasted to the side of the road. I've had a few tire-fragging flats and blowouts that came close to causing loss of control. I've almost capsized bikes over the sidecar on at least two occasions--that certainly would have been disastrous but caused by overenthusiasm plus underskill, not something on the bike "fragging". I know of a K100/EML where the wheel bolts all unscrewed, but didn't cause an accident.

I have heard of late model single sided BMW final drives "fragging" on two wheelers. Was the author talking about BMWs such as the R1150RT or K1200LT? Did I miss something in the translation? Are we supposed to send our airhead rigs to the car crushers because of one sad but isolated accident?

pmdave

#12 · January 13, 2004, 4:43 am

I had a friend who slipped in the shower hit his head and died. I have not taken a shower in the five years since this happened. This has caused me to have some death threats from associates at work...wow..can't win.
Claude

#13 · July 18, 2011, 1:34 am

Wow, what you think! Apparently he does not like Airheads! I run a '81 Gold Wings sidecars 17 years, just because it's less maintenance. Relatively speaking, is a "point in the car," Beemer and my old wing is the "pick" and heavier built. But I miss the lightness and Twin Boxer sound.

#14 · July 19, 2011, 10:36 pm

I prefer watercooling, but I still dream of my old Norton Comandos torque, (which nearly killed me in death Valley - => Sent the engine to Germany for to make a rig out of it, but migrated to CR. )
Rig riding and building is a very subjektiv question with different ways to approach it., like anything else that has to do with taste and behaviour.
BUT:
"There is no better tone then the Nortone!"
Sven

#15 · July 20, 2011, 12:40 pm

Another subject I find fascinating. First off why would you give some blow hard with a non factual opinion, and little or no experience relating to sidecars the time of day? I can only go by my own experiences. I manufactured and installed over fifty of my Sweet SL-110 sidecars onto different BMW model motorcycles. We had two guys that stand out in my mind. One drove his over 100,000 miles, and the other with 250,000. The Later would get a crest from BMW every 100,000 miles. He had two and was working on number three the last time I saw him. The problem is that was some time ago, and if he's still alive he's in his 90's. He drove his rig up to Labrador to the highest point in Eastern North America that he could get to. He then turned around and drove it South to the tip of Key West. I remember him mentioning about the bearings in the front wheels being tapered, and the chances of them wearing out if maintained at slim to none. Some of these guys drove over 10,000 miles a year. In ten years they would wrack up 100,000 miles. Some got long miles on the tires, and others did not. We would experiment on different set up's to improve tire performance, but always returned to the basic lead, tow in, and camber. We ran race cars and understood tires, and there importance to any rolling combination. Those 12" trailer tires that I used got some great mileage when the set up was correct.

It's always a good thing when someone with no experience and knowledge of a subject will tell you how it should be done. This clown on another site writing about the folly of mounting a sidecar on a what you call an air head BMW is just that, a clown. It does make for some interesting conversation for the road weary.
Just reflecting on my personal experiences, and 0.02$
Johnny sweet

#16 · July 26, 2011, 2:33 pm

I have had a BMW R75/6 rig with a velorex sidecar. It had a dauntless subframe. You do ned a subrame and a good steering damper, but a well sorted out airhead rig is excellent. I rode mine for two years and the new owner is probably enjoying it as we speak.

My daughter got older and wanted a new rig. Since I just bop around, I found an old Ural that needed some serious work. Now that I have it well sorted out, I can tell you (and its blasphemy cause I'm a lifelong BMW rider) yes, the Ural is way better for pulling a chair. They don't go fast (big deal) but I way prefer the leading link suspension and dedicated mounts.

But an airhead final drive? Cmon, anybody who says what this guy is saying just plain doesn't know anything about motorcycles. I will take half the fluid out of an airhead drive, attach a Ural and chair on a chain and drag it halfway across the state on flat tires. What a joke. There has never been a finer and stronger drivetrain made for a motorcycle ever.

Yes, airhead brakes totally stink for pulling a chair... but so do any other manufacturers 1970's brakes. If I were doing another airhead rig, I would buy an Earle's fork bike from the 60's that already has sidecar attachment points.

But I'm very pleased with my ural for my own needs and I do like it all overall more than my airhead rig. WHen stuff starts going wrong with the bike thoug, I'm going to miss that airhead reliability.

Attached files

#17 · July 26, 2011, 2:42 pm

Here's my BMW rig, you can see why I like the Ural more. Way nicer chair and appointment for way less money

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#18 · July 26, 2011, 7:52 pm

Brownw3 - 7/26/2011 2:33 PM

... the Ural is way better for pulling a chair [than an Airhead]....

Interesting comments Brown, as I've had conversations with a former Airhead rig owner now Ural rig owner that said the same thing: The Airhead is a better bike, but the Ural (frame, leading links, etc.) is a much better sidecar tug, adding that the Ural would be great if had an R90 engine w/5 speed transmission w/reverse.

Lee / Summer Grove, Louisiana: Ural cT, CJ750, Burgman/Texas Ranger, Zuma 50F, MB5, TW200, CRF250L, GTV300

#19 · July 27, 2011, 12:15 am

I'll even get crazier. My Ural is a 1998. It's a 650. I'm a big guy and my daughter is only 9 but a shade under 5'4" . The Ural is childs' play to work on, and pulls us around tracking straight as an arrow at 55 MPH. Does anybody need more than that?

Maybe they do, but I don't. Now My BMW rig was super, but the chair was a joke. I have a $4000 price limit for a second bike (my daily rider is an R1200GS BMW) My Ural Rig, as pictured, I have a total of $3000 in it and that includes the license plates! ANd it looks way cooler and more retro.

I have 4 speeds and reverse, and that's plenty for safely toting my girl around

#20 · August 7, 2011, 9:18 pm

if people hadnt been running sidecars on BMWs for many years i may pay more attention to the opinion. if i got a second sidecar an old BMW with a sidecar would be a choice .