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Oil Cooler or Not?
Quote from azpaul50 on February 20, 2014, 11:26 amI asked this question in the panhead forum on another site and got mixed answers. Harley didn't start using oil coolers on FLs until 1977. With our hot weather here, I was thinking about putting a Lockhart on if I could find a nice old one, closest to 1965. My logic is that drag from a sidecar makes the motor work harder and hotter. For clarity, I'm not suggesting that I ride my bike when it is 120F here but do ride when it is near 100. It would not be "original" or correct but the bike already has repops that diverge from being totally "correct." Technically, what is the opinion here about sidecar use = oil cooler in hotter climates? - AZP
I asked this question in the panhead forum on another site and got mixed answers. Harley didn't start using oil coolers on FLs until 1977. With our hot weather here, I was thinking about putting a Lockhart on if I could find a nice old one, closest to 1965. My logic is that drag from a sidecar makes the motor work harder and hotter. For clarity, I'm not suggesting that I ride my bike when it is 120F here but do ride when it is near 100. It would not be "original" or correct but the bike already has repops that diverge from being totally "correct." Technically, what is the opinion here about sidecar use = oil cooler in hotter climates? - AZP
Quote from Chuck on February 20, 2014, 12:11 pmAZP, It is going to help the motor and the oil in the more extreme heat add to this the drag from a sidecar or even a head wind its going to make the motor work harder, I wouldn't think twice.
I am currently working on a 1957 panhead with a late 40's Goulding sidecar and I do intend to install a lockhart oil cooler
AZP, It is going to help the motor and the oil in the more extreme heat add to this the drag from a sidecar or even a head wind its going to make the motor work harder, I wouldn't think twice.
I am currently working on a 1957 panhead with a late 40's Goulding sidecar and I do intend to install a lockhart oil cooler
Quote from jae on February 20, 2014, 12:12 pmMy personal opinion, anything that will increase cooling capacity will increase longevity, and I would install it. If you plan on putting miles on the bike (as opposed to letting it sit as an "original" museum showpiece), by all means, take care of the engine.
My personal opinion, anything that will increase cooling capacity will increase longevity, and I would install it. If you plan on putting miles on the bike (as opposed to letting it sit as an "original" museum showpiece), by all means, take care of the engine.
Quote from azpaul50 on February 20, 2014, 1:04 pmAs Homer Simpson would say............Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, a Goulding! Nice! The conflicting responses are partially technical and partly customary. The "customary" part is simply matching equipment with the time period of the bike. In this case, Harley wasn't doing oil coolers for several more years. My rides are not museum pieces in any sense but often sit unridden for extended periods. When I bring one out, it usually gets a few hundred miles of use and then gets put away again. I've gotten too old and lame for long hauls. Actually, Blondie supported the sidecar simply so I couldn't fall over! lolololol. I am guilty of inattention and pay the price when it comes to resurrect one that got pushed back in line for attention. So far, the preponderence of opinions agrees to put one on. I have a "V" bracket but no cooler so far. I let a NOS one pass a while ago and am now kicking myself. I would think a thermostat is also mandated although there isn't much chance of too cold oil here after letting the bike warm up properly.
As Homer Simpson would say............Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, a Goulding! Nice! The conflicting responses are partially technical and partly customary. The "customary" part is simply matching equipment with the time period of the bike. In this case, Harley wasn't doing oil coolers for several more years. My rides are not museum pieces in any sense but often sit unridden for extended periods. When I bring one out, it usually gets a few hundred miles of use and then gets put away again. I've gotten too old and lame for long hauls. Actually, Blondie supported the sidecar simply so I couldn't fall over! lolololol. I am guilty of inattention and pay the price when it comes to resurrect one that got pushed back in line for attention. So far, the preponderence of opinions agrees to put one on. I have a "V" bracket but no cooler so far. I let a NOS one pass a while ago and am now kicking myself. I would think a thermostat is also mandated although there isn't much chance of too cold oil here after letting the bike warm up properly.
Quote from Peter Pan on February 20, 2014, 2:38 pmThermal bypass valve!
And Cooled stays longer running.
I once did the mistake to rebuild a 1960 Willies and did continue with the original design errors like weight saving holes in the main supports. Bullsh..t that was a built in fuse by the factory,,,
Sven
Thermal bypass valve!
And Cooled stays longer running.
I once did the mistake to rebuild a 1960 Willies and did continue with the original design errors like weight saving holes in the main supports. Bullsh..t that was a built in fuse by the factory,,,
Sven
Quote from Markh00 on February 20, 2014, 9:00 pmSince you're discussing oil coolers, I have a question. I had to remove the HD accessory cooler and thermal valve/oil filter adapter in order to get the front lower sidecar mount to fit my 2005 FLHTC. I have thought of mounting the cooler to the sidecar frame and pick up the oil from the fitting that returns oil from the crankcase to the oil tank. Run the oil by hose to the cooler, then from the cooler to the tank. I have only seen this on one Harley, and often wonder why the factory didn't do it that way. Any thoughts. Would it affect the scavenge pump's ability to pull oil from the crankcase?
Since you're discussing oil coolers, I have a question. I had to remove the HD accessory cooler and thermal valve/oil filter adapter in order to get the front lower sidecar mount to fit my 2005 FLHTC. I have thought of mounting the cooler to the sidecar frame and pick up the oil from the fitting that returns oil from the crankcase to the oil tank. Run the oil by hose to the cooler, then from the cooler to the tank. I have only seen this on one Harley, and often wonder why the factory didn't do it that way. Any thoughts. Would it affect the scavenge pump's ability to pull oil from the crankcase?
Quote from Chuck on February 21, 2014, 5:44 amAZP, May be able to find this in one of your local bone yards with 50's or early 60's cars
We use to use the finned cooler tube off of old power steering pumps, not a factory item(for a bike) but it would give the older/pantina look from "back in the day"
AZP, May be able to find this in one of your local bone yards with 50's or early 60's cars
We use to use the finned cooler tube off of old power steering pumps, not a factory item(for a bike) but it would give the older/pantina look from "back in the day"
Quote from azpaul50 on February 27, 2014, 12:31 pmI don't think it would matter with a little more in the oil tank to compensate for longer lines. The one thing that would be important is to allow more time to warm up the motor before revving. - AZP
I don't think it would matter with a little more in the oil tank to compensate for longer lines. The one thing that would be important is to allow more time to warm up the motor before revving. - AZP
Quote from 46u on February 27, 2014, 5:10 pmWhen I put my Harley cool cooler on my 02 Ultra they did not use the oil filter adapter and the lines run to the oil tank and motor under the little cover on the right side between the motor and trans. It does have a by pass valve mounted in the lines between the cooler and oil tank and motor as too cool oil is just as bad as too hot. I have my cooler where most are mounted just under the regulator. I have been running it like this for 97,000 plus miles. I would not run a twin cam with a cooler as the get really hot and was the first thing I put on mine after checking oil temps. I ran coolers on my shovel heads as well. I would not run it on really old HDs as I feel the pump is not up to handling them.
When I put my Harley cool cooler on my 02 Ultra they did not use the oil filter adapter and the lines run to the oil tank and motor under the little cover on the right side between the motor and trans. It does have a by pass valve mounted in the lines between the cooler and oil tank and motor as too cool oil is just as bad as too hot. I have my cooler where most are mounted just under the regulator. I have been running it like this for 97,000 plus miles. I would not run a twin cam with a cooler as the get really hot and was the first thing I put on mine after checking oil temps. I ran coolers on my shovel heads as well. I would not run it on really old HDs as I feel the pump is not up to handling them.
Quote from Peter Pan on March 2, 2014, 9:12 pmMy question is where to get a thermal bypass valve NPT1/4", as I have the cooler without any temperature regulation?
As Jeff tells, too cool is very bad for the engine too.
On one bike I had for 148.000km and which went up to 210.000 km under the second owner, the thermalyl regulated oilcooler was probably the main reason for its mileage.
My question is where to get a thermal bypass valve NPT1/4", as I have the cooler without any temperature regulation?
As Jeff tells, too cool is very bad for the engine too.
On one bike I had for 148.000km and which went up to 210.000 km under the second owner, the thermalyl regulated oilcooler was probably the main reason for its mileage.
Quote from 46u on March 3, 2014, 3:39 pmMine just goes in the hoses between the cooler and motor with hose clamps. No threaded fittings.
Mine just goes in the hoses between the cooler and motor with hose clamps. No threaded fittings.
Quote from azpaul50 on March 3, 2014, 5:38 pmI found a used Lockhart with no bent fins along with the "V" bracket to mount on the crash bar. It was clean as a whistle inside. Like 46U, it is going on just with hoses and no temp regulation or bypass. I only had a cooler once before on a used but modern bike and simply blocked off the cooler with cardboard and duct tape when it got too cold. I was in SoCal and only did that once when going up to Arrowhead. Looks weren't a priority then. According to the hydra glide people, there is an old beercan thermostat used on pans but I don't think I'd need it. In fact, I don't see riding it anywhere that the ambient temp would be that cold. I have a leather cover for the Lockhart although it will probably stay off most of the time even during the winter. It was 90F+ here last week. As for parades or heavy stop and go traffic, I think a parade fan would be a better option. I would thin finding a bypass for a modern bike would be relatively easy... what's that new brand cooler than is dominating the market? Jagg? The hydra guys also say that Harley didn't even offer a cooler option until '77. I don't know if that's true or not. - AZP
I found a used Lockhart with no bent fins along with the "V" bracket to mount on the crash bar. It was clean as a whistle inside. Like 46U, it is going on just with hoses and no temp regulation or bypass. I only had a cooler once before on a used but modern bike and simply blocked off the cooler with cardboard and duct tape when it got too cold. I was in SoCal and only did that once when going up to Arrowhead. Looks weren't a priority then. According to the hydra glide people, there is an old beercan thermostat used on pans but I don't think I'd need it. In fact, I don't see riding it anywhere that the ambient temp would be that cold. I have a leather cover for the Lockhart although it will probably stay off most of the time even during the winter. It was 90F+ here last week. As for parades or heavy stop and go traffic, I think a parade fan would be a better option. I would thin finding a bypass for a modern bike would be relatively easy... what's that new brand cooler than is dominating the market? Jagg? The hydra guys also say that Harley didn't even offer a cooler option until '77. I don't know if that's true or not. - AZP
Quote from 46u on March 3, 2014, 8:08 pmHear is Lockhart by pass valve I use as it works much better then the one that cam with my HD oil cooler. All it has is hose nipples and not threaded fittings.
Hear is Lockhart by pass valve I use as it works much better then the one that cam with my HD oil cooler. All it has is hose nipples and not threaded fittings.
Quote from Peter Pan on March 3, 2014, 8:31 pmThank You very much Jeff, that looks neat and like it will make a clean setup.
Now I'll have to search where to get it...
Sven
Thank You very much Jeff, that looks neat and like it will make a clean setup.
Now I'll have to search where to get it...
Sven
Quote from timo482 on March 3, 2014, 9:37 pmi have my cooler AND the filter mounted to the right crash bar. i have a filter adapter mounted where the filter goes and a pair of hoses to the filter first [hot oil through the filter] and then to the cooler and back to the engine. its between the hack body and the bike so most folks never see it but it works really well and makes oil changes a breeze
to
i have my cooler AND the filter mounted to the right crash bar. i have a filter adapter mounted where the filter goes and a pair of hoses to the filter first [hot oil through the filter] and then to the cooler and back to the engine. its between the hack body and the bike so most folks never see it but it works really well and makes oil changes a breeze
to
Quote from azpaul50 on March 4, 2014, 3:29 pmI saw some of that type but none were available when I looked. Meanwhile, the beercan type I mentioned is even an older style. I'm pressing to get this done including the sidecar, cooler, and putting a ton of stuff back onto the bike that had been removed by the previous owner. He also took off the rear crash bars and now I have to take the rails and other stuff off before I can get the bars back on. The bars screw around the top shock mount and require enough room to clear everything in the bar arc. This project is a rush to get things done before our annual Prison Run (Norwalk Centaurs) in April and then I can go back and improve later. Meanwhile, I'm getting two cars ready for this weekend.... Blondie's Corvette and my Amphicar/trailer/scooter rig. You saw my stuff at www.radvet.com, right? I'm like in parts/service hell right now because everything here happens all at once. Timo.... I'm pretty much limited to mounting stuff like it would have been mounted during or earlier than '65. Uhhh, 1965, not 1865 as some of my biker friends might suggest. I'm one of the OCD vintage bike guys. Sometimes I wish I wasn't... WHINE!!! . - AZP
I saw some of that type but none were available when I looked. Meanwhile, the beercan type I mentioned is even an older style. I'm pressing to get this done including the sidecar, cooler, and putting a ton of stuff back onto the bike that had been removed by the previous owner. He also took off the rear crash bars and now I have to take the rails and other stuff off before I can get the bars back on. The bars screw around the top shock mount and require enough room to clear everything in the bar arc. This project is a rush to get things done before our annual Prison Run (Norwalk Centaurs) in April and then I can go back and improve later. Meanwhile, I'm getting two cars ready for this weekend.... Blondie's Corvette and my Amphicar/trailer/scooter rig. You saw my stuff at http://www.radvet.com, right? I'm like in parts/service hell right now because everything here happens all at once. Timo.... I'm pretty much limited to mounting stuff like it would have been mounted during or earlier than '65. Uhhh, 1965, not 1865 as some of my biker friends might suggest. I'm one of the OCD vintage bike guys. Sometimes I wish I wasn't... WHINE!!! . - AZP
Quote from azpaul50 on April 20, 2014, 4:44 pmI'm trying to close some of the threads I started. I ended up putting a chrome Lockhart 500 on the panhead and it seems to be working fine. As someone suggested, I mounted it high by turning the "V" bracket upsidedown and attached it to the center crash bar bolt. The local run I was planning for ended today with air temps in mid-90's. It was a hot mamba-jamba. I went without the bypass valve but do have a cooler cover. I doubt I'll use it much here in SoAz. - AZP
I'm trying to close some of the threads I started. I ended up putting a chrome Lockhart 500 on the panhead and it seems to be working fine. As someone suggested, I mounted it high by turning the "V" bracket upsidedown and attached it to the center crash bar bolt. The local run I was planning for ended today with air temps in mid-90's. It was a hot mamba-jamba. I went without the bypass valve but do have a cooler cover. I doubt I'll use it much here in SoAz. - AZP
Quote from boudiepitbull on April 22, 2014, 11:12 pmI've run oil coolers on my old Ironhead Sporty since it was new, on my Shovel, and now they are stock on our Hinckley Bonnevilles and Thruxton (including the tug for our hack). I never used a bypass valve on any oil cooler I installed. I have simply kept my oil coolers covered so that air flow is restricted through them in the winter months. Based on oil tank dipstick thermometers on both Harleys I can usually see a 20-25 degree difference between running covered and uncovered. Low tech...but so am I.
I've run oil coolers on my old Ironhead Sporty since it was new, on my Shovel, and now they are stock on our Hinckley Bonnevilles and Thruxton (including the tug for our hack). I never used a bypass valve on any oil cooler I installed. I have simply kept my oil coolers covered so that air flow is restricted through them in the winter months. Based on oil tank dipstick thermometers on both Harleys I can usually see a 20-25 degree difference between running covered and uncovered. Low tech...but so am I.