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new ural or new hack?
Quote from slapping_rabbits on July 14, 2016, 7:59 amYep, that was the place. They were very nice there and they do test rides, but the prices were pretty high. Well, that's bmw I guess. It also makes me wonder what my maintenance costs will be relative to a japanese company or triumph or ural?
Yep, that was the place. They were very nice there and they do test rides, but the prices were pretty high. Well, that's bmw I guess. It also makes me wonder what my maintenance costs will be relative to a japanese company or triumph or ural?
Quote from Al Olme on July 14, 2016, 9:48 amBob's BMW is a premium price for premium service sort of place but certainly worth it. If you go with a new BMW your maintenance will be higher compared to most others. If you go with a used BMW you may still pay a little more but not much. Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient. Remember, your maintenance will be higher on any sidecar rig than it is on a solo bike. Bearings wear faster, tires wear faster because of the loads that we place on them and for which they were not originally engineered.
It's been said here before... Buy a used rig, maybe even an old Goldwing rig, run it until you are confident that sidecars are your passion and then trade up. Shallow or not, you will be happy in the long run.
Bob's BMW is a premium price for premium service sort of place but certainly worth it. If you go with a new BMW your maintenance will be higher compared to most others. If you go with a used BMW you may still pay a little more but not much. Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient. Remember, your maintenance will be higher on any sidecar rig than it is on a solo bike. Bearings wear faster, tires wear faster because of the loads that we place on them and for which they were not originally engineered.
It's been said here before... Buy a used rig, maybe even an old Goldwing rig, run it until you are confident that sidecars are your passion and then trade up. Shallow or not, you will be happy in the long run.
Quote from jaydmc on July 14, 2016, 10:11 amBob's BMW is also set up as a dealer for our products and could put one of our sidecars on for you. We do have mounts of course for the GS having built over 1000 GS's We also have mounts for the N9T and others.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
Bob's BMW is also set up as a dealer for our products and could put one of our sidecars on for you. We do have mounts of course for the GS having built over 1000 GS's We also have mounts for the N9T and others.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
Quote from SwampFox on July 15, 2016, 8:05 amAl Olme - 7/14/2016 9:48 AM
... Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient....
and are willing to travel or ship. For example -R1200GS w/Hannigan Dual Sport sidecar: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/mcy/5613264126.html
Al Olme - 7/14/2016 9:48 AM
... Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient....
and are willing to travel or ship. For example -R1200GS w/Hannigan Dual Sport sidecar: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/mcy/5613264126.html
Quote from slapping_rabbits on July 18, 2016, 1:58 pmvery nice. that sidecar looks huge!
very nice. that sidecar looks huge!
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 12:22 pmI am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural-motorcycle.794963/
I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000
Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural-motorcycle.794963/
I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 12:27 pmI am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural-motorcycle.794963/
I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006 w/ 1000 ? Something's not right. If they are so much fun and so reliable - why not 35K, 47K ?
I appreciate the input I got on my other post here - helped me make up my mind.
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000
Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural-motorcycle.794963/
I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006 w/ 1000 ? Something's not right. If they are so much fun and so reliable - why not 35K, 47K ?
I appreciate the input I got on my other post here - helped me make up my mind.
Quote from jaydmc on July 19, 2016, 12:38 pmI would never consider putting a Velorex on an 1100 Suzuki. While I have never owned a Hannigan sidecar, I have owned several GL1500's with sidecars, they make a great sidecar bike.
Lots of posts on ADV rider on the Ural, in essence a Ural is a band new antique, While reliability is way up from where they started the are still not 100% reliable. They are a great bike if you understand what it is and that is what you want. What it is, is a great secondary roads "antique" that you do have to do more maintenance on then you would a modern bike, if you like tinkering and riding back roads it might be the bike for you. If on the other hand you want to put gas in it and ride across the country there are many far more suited bikes to do this on. One theory I have as to why there are so many used Ural rigs around is that they supply a complete ready to go sidecar bike that you can finance easily. I suspect that if you could not finance a Ural new that there would be far fewer on the road. When buying a new bike it is usually possible to finance a sidecar with it but most people do not know that.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
I would never consider putting a Velorex on an 1100 Suzuki. While I have never owned a Hannigan sidecar, I have owned several GL1500's with sidecars, they make a great sidecar bike.
Lots of posts on ADV rider on the Ural, in essence a Ural is a band new antique, While reliability is way up from where they started the are still not 100% reliable. They are a great bike if you understand what it is and that is what you want. What it is, is a great secondary roads "antique" that you do have to do more maintenance on then you would a modern bike, if you like tinkering and riding back roads it might be the bike for you. If on the other hand you want to put gas in it and ride across the country there are many far more suited bikes to do this on. One theory I have as to why there are so many used Ural rigs around is that they supply a complete ready to go sidecar bike that you can finance easily. I suspect that if you could not finance a Ural new that there would be far fewer on the road. When buying a new bike it is usually possible to finance a sidecar with it but most people do not know that.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Quote from VLAD on July 19, 2016, 1:28 pmredsimp - 7/19/2016 10:27 AM
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
.
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.
redsimp - 7/19/2016 10:27 AM
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
.
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 1:56 pmJay - Time is in short supply for me - tinkering and maintaining and repairing on my ride - not my glass of beer. I like to ride 400-500 miles a day on my
RSV when I'm traveling - more if I'm solo. I have no intention to trash Urals - I understand what they are and I came to the conclusion they are not for me. I was wondering out loud why the MILEAGE is so low on the used Urals I have found. I am suspicious if a bike doesn't get at least 1000 miles a year.Why not a Velorex on a 1100 Suzuki? I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750. I appreciate your info - this is all new to me. Pardon the phasing - a "crash" course as it were, in Sidecars 101.
Jay - Time is in short supply for me - tinkering and maintaining and repairing on my ride - not my glass of beer. I like to ride 400-500 miles a day on my
RSV when I'm traveling - more if I'm solo. I have no intention to trash Urals - I understand what they are and I came to the conclusion they are not for me. I was wondering out loud why the MILEAGE is so low on the used Urals I have found. I am suspicious if a bike doesn't get at least 1000 miles a year.
Why not a Velorex on a 1100 Suzuki? I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750. I appreciate your info - this is all new to me. Pardon the phasing - a "crash" course as it were, in Sidecars 101.
Quote from Alan_Hepburn on July 19, 2016, 2:13 pm...I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750.
The Ural is a 750 cc, that generates around 41 hp. Up until 2014 when they went to an EFI system the top speed was listed as 65mph, and it struggled to maintain that! It would cruise all day at 50mph, but asking any more from it was a lesson in patience. We absolutely loved our 2006 Ural, but it did have limitations, which is why we now have a 1994 GL1500SE with a sidecar!
...I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750.
The Ural is a 750 cc, that generates around 41 hp. Up until 2014 when they went to an EFI system the top speed was listed as 65mph, and it struggled to maintain that! It would cruise all day at 50mph, but asking any more from it was a lesson in patience. We absolutely loved our 2006 Ural, but it did have limitations, which is why we now have a 1994 GL1500SE with a sidecar!
Quote from jaydmc on July 19, 2016, 2:13 pmThe Velorex sidecar was designed for 350cc bikes, the importer seems to find safety of lesser importance then sales, in fact one of their dealers has even mounted one on an 1800cc Goldwing and this was before they came up with their "heavier" duty versions. The frame, suspension and especially the mounts really are not up to a bike this large. Safety must always come first. Larger bikes require stronger frames, heavier duty suspension with stiffer shocks and mounts that do not slip. This link will give you some idea as to the issues with the stock Velorex mounts http://www.dmcsidecars.com/the-result-of-improper-sidecar-mounting-and-the-proper-fix/
If a sidecar is not heavy enough it will lift far to easy on right hand turns, some lighter sidecars such as our Kenna, classic and M72B are to light for heavier bikes for instance we often use our Kenna single on the GL1500's and GL1800s' while this sidecar is to light for this heavy of a bike it is very stout and as such strong enough to take ballast and has a heavy enough shock / spring assemble for a bike this heavy. And as we almost never use "universal" type mounts and of course never have a lower rear that is prone to slip we can get away with these lighter sidecars on heavier bikes. The Velorex does not use a proper lower rear mount, its springs / shocks are to light and the "universal" mounts are prone to slip.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
The Velorex sidecar was designed for 350cc bikes, the importer seems to find safety of lesser importance then sales, in fact one of their dealers has even mounted one on an 1800cc Goldwing and this was before they came up with their "heavier" duty versions. The frame, suspension and especially the mounts really are not up to a bike this large. Safety must always come first. Larger bikes require stronger frames, heavier duty suspension with stiffer shocks and mounts that do not slip. This link will give you some idea as to the issues with the stock Velorex mounts http://www.dmcsidecars.com/the-result-of-improper-sidecar-mounting-and-the-proper-fix/
If a sidecar is not heavy enough it will lift far to easy on right hand turns, some lighter sidecars such as our Kenna, classic and M72B are to light for heavier bikes for instance we often use our Kenna single on the GL1500's and GL1800s' while this sidecar is to light for this heavy of a bike it is very stout and as such strong enough to take ballast and has a heavy enough shock / spring assemble for a bike this heavy. And as we almost never use "universal" type mounts and of course never have a lower rear that is prone to slip we can get away with these lighter sidecars on heavier bikes. The Velorex does not use a proper lower rear mount, its springs / shocks are to light and the "universal" mounts are prone to slip.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 2:15 pmVLAD - 7/19/2016 1:28 PM
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.What do I want to do with it? Right now?
#1 Learn to ride a sidecar rig (opps - DRIVE)
#2 See if I like having a sidecar for traveling.
#3 Be able to take the dog with me when the wife has to work & carry more & larger crap when I go to Home Depot.
#4 Gain experience & knowledge before buying a new sidecar
#5 Be able to continue DRIVING a rig on into my decrepit years.
#6 No real dirt/backwoods/ wilderness riding - I got a 4X4 truck for that.I want a trainer, an older bike to learn on for now. Just like I started on Harley Hummer back when I had all my hair and moved up the power/wt. curve.
I want a bike I can resell and not take a big loss on. Assuming I survive #1-5 above.On that last note - how do they value these rigs? I look at the Kelley BB price on a '94 Wing and it's $2390 - $4180. A 2000 Astro 2+2 is $1100 - $1700. Add them up and you get a low of $3500 and a high retail of $5880. Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something?
VLAD - 7/19/2016 1:28 PM
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.
What do I want to do with it? Right now?
#1 Learn to ride a sidecar rig (opps - DRIVE)
#2 See if I like having a sidecar for traveling.
#3 Be able to take the dog with me when the wife has to work & carry more & larger crap when I go to Home Depot.
#4 Gain experience & knowledge before buying a new sidecar
#5 Be able to continue DRIVING a rig on into my decrepit years.
#6 No real dirt/backwoods/ wilderness riding - I got a 4X4 truck for that.
I want a trainer, an older bike to learn on for now. Just like I started on Harley Hummer back when I had all my hair and moved up the power/wt. curve.
I want a bike I can resell and not take a big loss on. Assuming I survive #1-5 above.
On that last note - how do they value these rigs? I look at the Kelley BB price on a '94 Wing and it's $2390 - $4180. A 2000 Astro 2+2 is $1100 - $1700. Add them up and you get a low of $3500 and a high retail of $5880. Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something?
Quote from jaydmc on July 19, 2016, 2:22 pmKelly blue book realistic values on bikes are often a bit low and always way off for sidecars. I assume what they do is take original price and then they have some kind of depreciation table that they use to calculate current value. This sucks if you are looking to finance or have a total loss that insurance needs to figure the value for but it is what they do. They also do not take into account any options that can add significantly to the price of a sidecar, this includes things like paint, steering modifications to the bike, automotive wheels electric trim and much more. At least they are willing to list sidecars. One up side is that some states (Washington where I live) use their values to figure sales tax. This can also suck, not long ago I purchased a KLR for $1700 less then Kelly blue book said it should sell for. I had cash, the seller was motivated Washington state still charged me $1700 more value for sales tax then what I truly paid for it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
Kelly blue book realistic values on bikes are often a bit low and always way off for sidecars. I assume what they do is take original price and then they have some kind of depreciation table that they use to calculate current value. This sucks if you are looking to finance or have a total loss that insurance needs to figure the value for but it is what they do. They also do not take into account any options that can add significantly to the price of a sidecar, this includes things like paint, steering modifications to the bike, automotive wheels electric trim and much more. At least they are willing to list sidecars. One up side is that some states (Washington where I live) use their values to figure sales tax. This can also suck, not long ago I purchased a KLR for $1700 less then Kelly blue book said it should sell for. I had cash, the seller was motivated Washington state still charged me $1700 more value for sales tax then what I truly paid for it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 2:27 pmAgain - thanks. Much good info. Basically the Velorex is too light for an 1100. And it would make a lousy trainer. I'd be likely to fly the chair, being that I'm a novice, and possibly bring an end to ALL my motorcycling days. 🙂
I see the Velorex cars are sold w/ "universal" mounts - which my experience generally means it fits all applications equally poorly.
Good to know - this why I dove in here.
Again - thanks. Much good info. Basically the Velorex is too light for an 1100. And it would make a lousy trainer. I'd be likely to fly the chair, being that I'm a novice, and possibly bring an end to ALL my motorcycling days. 🙂
I see the Velorex cars are sold w/ "universal" mounts - which my experience generally means it fits all applications equally poorly.
Good to know - this why I dove in here.
Quote from redsimp on July 19, 2016, 2:33 pmSo $6200 for a '94 Wing with the Astro 2+2 is not a bad price then? Even with a non -functioning radio & some running lights out? I could learn on it for a year or 2 and sell it for about the same $$, ya think? I thought the size of the car might too much for a beginner hack driver.
So $6200 for a '94 Wing with the Astro 2+2 is not a bad price then? Even with a non -functioning radio & some running lights out? I could learn on it for a year or 2 and sell it for about the same $$, ya think? I thought the size of the car might too much for a beginner hack driver.
Quote from Big Tom on July 19, 2016, 2:35 pmredsimp - 7/19/2016 9:22 AM
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
redsimp. That seems a bit high for a '94 Gold wing SC Rig. What has it got done to it? A 1500 GW will go a lot further than 105K.
Your location also has a lot to do with price. I just picked up a 2000 GW with Color Matched Champion Escort. It has E-Z Steer and electric lean. Everything works even the Cassett player and the CB radio. Bike had 22,500 miles on it when I test rode it. I'm up to 22,900 now. $8500
redsimp - 7/19/2016 9:22 AM
I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.
redsimp. That seems a bit high for a '94 Gold wing SC Rig. What has it got done to it? A 1500 GW will go a lot further than 105K.
Your location also has a lot to do with price. I just picked up a 2000 GW with Color Matched Champion Escort. It has E-Z Steer and electric lean. Everything works even the Cassett player and the CB radio. Bike had 22,500 miles on it when I test rode it. I'm up to 22,900 now. $8500
Quote from Al Olme on July 19, 2016, 2:43 pmredsimp said,"Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something? "
One thing that is seldom taken into account is the cost of actually mounting the sidecar. This can range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. If you have a full EML conversion you could easily spend $4,000 on the conversion and mounting after the cost of the kit.
Also, consider the idea that most sidecars change only marginally during their product life [which can be several decades]. There is very little difference between a Ural sidecar built in 1978 and a brand new one and this is true for most production sidecars. The only items that actually wear out on a typical sidecar are the tires, wheel bearings and shocks..Aside from a fresh paint job, you can make most sidecars "new again" for less than $300. The age of most sidecars is moot, the issue is their condition and the availability of spares.
redsimp said,"Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something? "
One thing that is seldom taken into account is the cost of actually mounting the sidecar. This can range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. If you have a full EML conversion you could easily spend $4,000 on the conversion and mounting after the cost of the kit.
Also, consider the idea that most sidecars change only marginally during their product life [which can be several decades]. There is very little difference between a Ural sidecar built in 1978 and a brand new one and this is true for most production sidecars. The only items that actually wear out on a typical sidecar are the tires, wheel bearings and shocks..Aside from a fresh paint job, you can make most sidecars "new again" for less than $300. The age of most sidecars is moot, the issue is their condition and the availability of spares.
Quote from VLAD on July 19, 2016, 4:06 pmIf someone asking $6200 you do not have to pay$6200.
You can try to buy it for less. And if not this bike it will be another...
If someone asking $6200 you do not have to pay$6200.
You can try to buy it for less. And if not this bike it will be another...