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Mileage comparison
Quote from Guest on September 11, 2007, 12:58 pmJust bought a rig (my first!) and am wondering about mileage. After talking to some other folks at a rally I wanted to get a broader scope.
What're you getting?My rig:
1983 BMW R100RT/Ural - 3.36:1 rear end
Average speed ~60MPH
Average distance ~840 miles
Average MPG ~28Others (at the rally):
BMW /2 conversion with R100RS engine/Bender - ?? rear end
Average speed ~65MPH
Average MPG ~35BMW R100/7 /Sputnik(not sure) - ?? rear end
Average speed ~60
Average MPG ~25Tony
Just bought a rig (my first!) and am wondering about mileage. After talking to some other folks at a rally I wanted to get a broader scope.
What're you getting?
My rig:
1983 BMW R100RT/Ural - 3.36:1 rear end
Average speed ~60MPH
Average distance ~840 miles
Average MPG ~28
Others (at the rally):
BMW /2 conversion with R100RS engine/Bender - ?? rear end
Average speed ~65MPH
Average MPG ~35
BMW R100/7 /Sputnik(not sure) - ?? rear end
Average speed ~60
Average MPG ~25
Tony
Quote from Mark in Idaho on September 11, 2007, 2:46 pmI have a Honda GL650/Dneper. When I first bought it,the best I could get was 37 mpg. The bike alone is supposed to get 50 mpg. I've put 20,000 miles on since then and now I'm getting more like 30 to 33 mpg. The faster you try to go, the worse the gas mileage. The worst mileage I've recorded was 24 mpg in a head wind at 75 to 80 mph. Thats quite a spread. My Ford truck on the other hand, gets 17 mpg no matter how much head wind, how fast I go or how much stuff I carry.
I have a Honda GL650/Dneper. When I first bought it,the best I could get was 37 mpg. The bike alone is supposed to get 50 mpg. I've put 20,000 miles on since then and now I'm getting more like 30 to 33 mpg. The faster you try to go, the worse the gas mileage. The worst mileage I've recorded was 24 mpg in a head wind at 75 to 80 mph. Thats quite a spread. My Ford truck on the other hand, gets 17 mpg no matter how much head wind, how fast I go or how much stuff I carry.
Quote from Guest on September 11, 2007, 2:52 pmI have a 73 /5 BMW with a R100RS engine and had my Motorvation FII on in. Mileage was around 32 MPG.less into a headwind.
I also have a 85 BMW K100 with same FII SC on it. Mileage is almost the same..32 MPG loaded with camping gear and passenger.
both get less if speed goes over 70.
worst I got was 27 into a wind and in hill country.
I have a 73 /5 BMW with a R100RS engine and had my Motorvation FII on in. Mileage was around 32 MPG.less into a headwind.
I also have a 85 BMW K100 with same FII SC on it. Mileage is almost the same..32 MPG loaded with camping gear and passenger.
both get less if speed goes over 70.
worst I got was 27 into a wind and in hill country.
Quote from Guest on September 11, 2007, 10:55 pmI seem to get about 30 on the V Strom, a little better with the Goldwing. I think the reason the Wing does better is it doesn't have to work very hard at it,
I seem to get about 30 on the V Strom, a little better with the Goldwing. I think the reason the Wing does better is it doesn't have to work very hard at it,
Quote from Peter Pan on September 12, 2007, 7:02 pmAll big engines and bid SCs are thirsty.
But small too as my former 250 MZ took its 8.5-11l/100km = 28 - 21m/gal at speeds arround 100kmh=63mphNow for to make you jealous:
My 350 Jawa/Velorex at speeds around 80-90kmh = 50-56mph needs just (3.8)-4.3l/100km = (62)-55m/gal (62m/gal was in the low lands with 1 passenger and lugage at 100kmh for a long night) My trouble are long steep hills (up+down (2stroke)) and the engine designed for cold Middle Europe, so it doesn't like costarican heat.But put this tiny toy beside yours and you see it has less then 1/2 of your front area and it is light as a feather (I guess less then 230kg fully equiped.)
Remember nearly all rigs have the aerodynamics of an open parachute + constant tire friction => no way to get to low gas consume.Best wishes
Sven Peter Pan
All big engines and bid SCs are thirsty.
But small too as my former 250 MZ took its 8.5-11l/100km = 28 - 21m/gal at speeds arround 100kmh=63mph
Now for to make you jealous:
My 350 Jawa/Velorex at speeds around 80-90kmh = 50-56mph needs just (3.8)-4.3l/100km = (62)-55m/gal (62m/gal was in the low lands with 1 passenger and lugage at 100kmh for a long night) My trouble are long steep hills (up+down (2stroke)) and the engine designed for cold Middle Europe, so it doesn't like costarican heat.
But put this tiny toy beside yours and you see it has less then 1/2 of your front area and it is light as a feather (I guess less then 230kg fully equiped.)
Remember nearly all rigs have the aerodynamics of an open parachute + constant tire friction => no way to get to low gas consume.
Best wishes
Sven Peter Pan
Quote from Tourdog on September 12, 2007, 10:28 pmK1200LT as a 2 wheeler, 50 mpg with cruise speed 60-65 mph. 165 lb solo rider and winds variable/ -< 20 mph. 20,000 mile arithmetic average.
same m/c with Hannigan KLT sidecar, lightly loaded (100 lb) same conditions and mileage for 3,000 miles is 40 mpg. Both cases the barn-door size m/c windshield is mid-height on its 10" variable height track.
I have installed a Metz 880 bias on the front and a B'Stone 020 on the rear and both are showing only the faintess initial wear, perfectly centered and I would estimate 12,000 miles easily on each of them.
I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!
K1200LT as a 2 wheeler, 50 mpg with cruise speed 60-65 mph. 165 lb solo rider and winds variable/ -< 20 mph. 20,000 mile arithmetic average.
same m/c with Hannigan KLT sidecar, lightly loaded (100 lb) same conditions and mileage for 3,000 miles is 40 mpg. Both cases the barn-door size m/c windshield is mid-height on its 10" variable height track.
I have installed a Metz 880 bias on the front and a B'Stone 020 on the rear and both are showing only the faintess initial wear, perfectly centered and I would estimate 12,000 miles easily on each of them.
I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!
Quote from Guest on September 13, 2007, 7:50 amMy Valkyrie/Spyder combo gets 25-28mpg, just about what I expected.
Before the sidecar, average was 33mpg. The Valkyrie doesn't get good gas mileage due to its frontal area and six carbs. However, it will haul the Spyder all day long at 85-90 mph with power to spare if I'm willing to chance a speeding ticket and pay for the gas.
My Valkyrie/Spyder combo gets 25-28mpg, just about what I expected.
Before the sidecar, average was 33mpg. The Valkyrie doesn't get good gas mileage due to its frontal area and six carbs. However, it will haul the Spyder all day long at 85-90 mph with power to spare if I'm willing to chance a speeding ticket and pay for the gas.
Quote from Circuit Rider on September 13, 2007, 8:33 amMy GL1800/Hannigan GTL gets about 32 mpg depending on speed, etc. Went over to the Davis Rally in Iowa last weekend bucking a strong headwind. I was beginning to think I had a hole in the gas tank. I was getting about 38-40 mpg before the sc was installed.
My GL1800/Hannigan GTL gets about 32 mpg depending on speed, etc. Went over to the Davis Rally in Iowa last weekend bucking a strong headwind. I was beginning to think I had a hole in the gas tank. I was getting about 38-40 mpg before the sc was installed.
Quote from Guest on September 13, 2007, 9:58 amOriginally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 8:28 PM
"Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
l!+1 Also a really nice guy.
Originally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 8:28 PM
"Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
l!
+1 Also a really nice guy.
Quote from Guest on September 13, 2007, 10:42 amOriginally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 10:28 PM
K1200LT as a 2 wheeler, 50 mpg with cruise speed 60-65 mph. 165 lb solo rider and winds variable/ -< 20 mph. 20,000 mile arithmetic average.
same m/c with Hannigan KLT sidecar, lightly loaded (100 lb) same conditions and mileage for 3,000 miles is 40 mpg. Both cases the barn-door size m/c windshield is mid-height on its 10" variable height track.
I have installed a Metz 880 bias on the front and a B'Stone 020 on the rear and both are showing only the faintess initial wear, perfectly centered and I would estimate 12,000 miles easily on each of them.
I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!
Why do you need to know the balance angle or height? unles your planning on some stunt riding, it has no use.
just keep that sucker on the ground, ride and enjoy. It's not going to lift with that size SC and normal riding speeds.
Originally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 10:28 PM
K1200LT as a 2 wheeler, 50 mpg with cruise speed 60-65 mph. 165 lb solo rider and winds variable/ -< 20 mph. 20,000 mile arithmetic average.
same m/c with Hannigan KLT sidecar, lightly loaded (100 lb) same conditions and mileage for 3,000 miles is 40 mpg. Both cases the barn-door size m/c windshield is mid-height on its 10" variable height track.
I have installed a Metz 880 bias on the front and a B'Stone 020 on the rear and both are showing only the faintess initial wear, perfectly centered and I would estimate 12,000 miles easily on each of them.
I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!
Why do you need to know the balance angle or height? unles your planning on some stunt riding, it has no use.
just keep that sucker on the ground, ride and enjoy. It's not going to lift with that size SC and normal riding speeds.
Quote from sdpc2 on September 13, 2007, 1:42 pmMy wife's '74 R90/6 with Velorex gets about 36 mpg and is happiest between 60 - 65 mph. Anything above that results in considerable decline in mileage.
My wife's '74 R90/6 with Velorex gets about 36 mpg and is happiest between 60 - 65 mph. Anything above that results in considerable decline in mileage.
Quote from Hack__n on September 13, 2007, 9:50 pmForget about all this quantum theory BS and enjoy the ride.
Sidecars are like Honeybees and the common house fly. Theoratically they can't fly. But they do! And we're glad they can. LOL
Lonnie
Forget about all this quantum theory BS and enjoy the ride.
Sidecars are like Honeybees and the common house fly. Theoratically they can't fly. But they do! And we're glad they can. LOL
Lonnie
Quote from Circuit Rider on September 14, 2007, 10:53 amOriginally written by gregbenner on 9/13/2007 8:58 AM
Originally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 8:28 PM
"Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
l!+1 Also a really nice guy.
+ 1 again...
Originally written by gregbenner on 9/13/2007 8:58 AM
Originally written by Tourdog on 9/12/2007 8:28 PM
"Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
l!+1 Also a really nice guy.
+ 1 again...
Quote from claude #3563 on September 17, 2007, 6:51 amTourdog wrote:
>>>>>I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!<<<<<
Amen on Dave..great guy and an asset to Sidecaring in general.
As far as the info you requested, balance points will vary with any rig and also with how it is loaded. It will also vary at the static state as related to when cornering as suspension movements and cornering forces come into play. Cornering forces (I don;t want to get into a debate of centrifigul vs centipical bs) will work through a roll center and affect how the center of gravity moves laterally witin the suspension actions. Sure you can get a couple of guys to lift the sidecar to the balance point and take a measurment but don't be fooled into thinking that will be the same point at all times.
So many of these types of discussion streat a sidecar rig as if there is no suspnsion anywhere on it. This leads to a lot of assumptions that are not actually accurate once th erig is underway.
If you find a way to determine where the roll centers are located on a sidecar rig and map out the roll couple(s) from that point I would certainly like to discuss it with you off list. Other than that? Like Lonnie said just ride the thing 🙂
Tourdog wrote:
>>>>>I am new at sidecaring and am a big advocate of a "fully engineered" rig. "Dave Keesee" of Hannigan certainly knows his stuff.
And, for those who might like this info it has 207 lbs of static down load on the sc wheel (58" lateral moment arm). Now not to hi-jack the thread but does any one know the angle of neutral balance of the sc? ie you lift at the sc wheel up to the point where it balances............ I need this to figure my lateral centroid. I could easily lift it with my backhoe but that could get away from me all too easily. Has anybody done this with a KLT say with a couple of guys with a handhold on the stub axle or so? A vertical inches measurement to a common point (frame tube etc) while being held at the raised balance point would really be helpful!<<<<<
Amen on Dave..great guy and an asset to Sidecaring in general.
As far as the info you requested, balance points will vary with any rig and also with how it is loaded. It will also vary at the static state as related to when cornering as suspension movements and cornering forces come into play. Cornering forces (I don;t want to get into a debate of centrifigul vs centipical bs) will work through a roll center and affect how the center of gravity moves laterally witin the suspension actions. Sure you can get a couple of guys to lift the sidecar to the balance point and take a measurment but don't be fooled into thinking that will be the same point at all times.
So many of these types of discussion streat a sidecar rig as if there is no suspnsion anywhere on it. This leads to a lot of assumptions that are not actually accurate once th erig is underway.
If you find a way to determine where the roll centers are located on a sidecar rig and map out the roll couple(s) from that point I would certainly like to discuss it with you off list. Other than that? Like Lonnie said just ride the thing 🙂
Quote from Guest on September 17, 2007, 1:37 pmOkay - thanks all for your input!
As noted by several folks, the frontal area and weight are going to cut down my mileage, which I expected. Compared to the /2 conversion my R100RT fairing and Ural chair are much bigger. Probably accounts for the (almost 10MPG) difference in our fuel consumption.
PeterPan (Sven) - yes, I am jealous! Thanks for taking the time to write!
Tony
Okay - thanks all for your input!
As noted by several folks, the frontal area and weight are going to cut down my mileage, which I expected. Compared to the /2 conversion my R100RT fairing and Ural chair are much bigger. Probably accounts for the (almost 10MPG) difference in our fuel consumption.
PeterPan (Sven) - yes, I am jealous! Thanks for taking the time to write!
Tony
Quote from Peter Pan on September 18, 2007, 11:31 amNo need to be yealous, I get to a border or ocean before the tank is empty and there are only few always the same roads! You continue throught fabulous landscapes until in a couple of weeks you get to an ocean.
Best regards from 10°N, 84°W
Sven Peter
No need to be yealous, I get to a border or ocean before the tank is empty and there are only few always the same roads! You continue throught fabulous landscapes until in a couple of weeks you get to an ocean.
Best regards from 10°N, 84°W
Sven Peter