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Leanout
Quote from Guest on February 1, 2007, 7:33 pmNot exactly what Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars explained to me the other day..... he says not enough toe in is usually the cause of bikes pulling to the right and not lean out. I'm not an expert, but I think he is. Also I am just telling what helped me and I believe all rigs probably differ somewhat. I have no uneven tire wear on my Texas rig after moving the toe in another 1/4 inch.
Had lots of tire wear on my 1998 Ural.... it tracked straight so I did not mess with any adjustments..... just figured it was the cheap Russian tires.
Jerry
Not exactly what Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars explained to me the other day..... he says not enough toe in is usually the cause of bikes pulling to the right and not lean out. I'm not an expert, but I think he is. Also I am just telling what helped me and I believe all rigs probably differ somewhat. I have no uneven tire wear on my Texas rig after moving the toe in another 1/4 inch.
Had lots of tire wear on my 1998 Ural.... it tracked straight so I did not mess with any adjustments..... just figured it was the cheap Russian tires.
Jerry
Quote from claude #3563 on February 1, 2007, 8:06 pmkeyssidecar wrote: Not exactly what Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars explained to me the other day..... he says not enough toe in is usually the cause of bikes pulling to the right and not lean out. I'm not an expert, but I think he is. Also I am just telling what helped me and I believe all rigs probably differ somewhat. I have no uneven tire wear on my Texas rig after moving the toe in another 1/4 inch.Had lots of tire wear on my 1998 Ural.... it tracked straight so I did not mess with any adjustments..... just figured it was the cheap Russian tires.Jerry========================================================= Too much toe in or toe out can usually be felt as a pull as slower speeds as went coming up to a stop. If bad enough toe can have an effect on the pull at higher speeds too. Sometimes not though. Where folks get messed up is when they try to adjust for pull by changing the toe in itself and not adjusting lean out. I foolishly took a rig to W Va from Central Pa that was never setup We were in a hurry to get on the road and I just eyeballed it a little ran it around the block, so to speak, and left. As far as handling goes it di very well on all surfaces from the super slab to the twisties. It did pull a little to the left more than normal under breaking and I figured the toe in was off some. On the return trip with about a hundred miles to go the threads began to show in the rear tire. No it was not a new tire when we left but was not that bad at all. To make it home we reduced speed and kept leaning the bike out in an effort to run on a part of th etire that still had rubber on it. We did make it but barely. I was stupid to leave without looking things over better. When I did check to toe in we found it had 3" pLEASE DON'T TELL ANYONE...LOL.
keyssidecar wrote: Not exactly what Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars explained to me the other day..... he says not enough toe in is usually the cause of bikes pulling to the right and not lean out. I'm not an expert, but I think he is. Also I am just telling what helped me and I believe all rigs probably differ somewhat. I have no uneven tire wear on my Texas rig after moving the toe in another 1/4 inch.Had lots of tire wear on my 1998 Ural.... it tracked straight so I did not mess with any adjustments..... just figured it was the cheap Russian tires.Jerry========================================================= Too much toe in or toe out can usually be felt as a pull as slower speeds as went coming up to a stop. If bad enough toe can have an effect on the pull at higher speeds too. Sometimes not though. Where folks get messed up is when they try to adjust for pull by changing the toe in itself and not adjusting lean out. I foolishly took a rig to W Va from Central Pa that was never setup We were in a hurry to get on the road and I just eyeballed it a little ran it around the block, so to speak, and left. As far as handling goes it di very well on all surfaces from the super slab to the twisties. It did pull a little to the left more than normal under breaking and I figured the toe in was off some. On the return trip with about a hundred miles to go the threads began to show in the rear tire. No it was not a new tire when we left but was not that bad at all. To make it home we reduced speed and kept leaning the bike out in an effort to run on a part of th etire that still had rubber on it. We did make it but barely. I was stupid to leave without looking things over better. When I did check to toe in we found it had 3" pLEASE DON'T TELL ANYONE...LOL.
Quote from Hack__n on February 1, 2007, 8:11 pmI like to setup with about 1 degree of leanout with normal loading and go to toe-in adjustment for the rest of the alignment. This has worked well for hundreds of installations.
But as was said earlier, Tracking and sidecar tire wear patterns are the best indicator of proper alignment of the rig regardless of the numbers.Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
I like to setup with about 1 degree of leanout with normal loading and go to toe-in adjustment for the rest of the alignment. This has worked well for hundreds of installations.
But as was said earlier, Tracking and sidecar tire wear patterns are the best indicator of proper alignment of the rig regardless of the numbers.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
Quote from claude #3563 on February 1, 2007, 8:23 pmLonnie wrote: "Tracking and sidecar tire wear patterns are the best indicator of proper alignment of the rig regardless of the numbers." That is the bottom line. Some High Performance sidecar have run extreme toe in due to not wanting to rum any lean out due to the wide tires on them.
Lonnie wrote: "Tracking and sidecar tire wear patterns are the best indicator of proper alignment of the rig regardless of the numbers." That is the bottom line. Some High Performance sidecar have run extreme toe in due to not wanting to rum any lean out due to the wide tires on them.
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 8:40 amI have a wide type car tire on my Texas Ranger sidecar..... not a motorcycle type tire that I had on my 1998 Ural.
Jerry
I have a wide type car tire on my Texas Ranger sidecar..... not a motorcycle type tire that I had on my 1998 Ural.
Jerry
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 8:42 amLonie: This was what basically Bob Darden of Texas sidecar explained to me the other day on the phone..... seems you pros approach the set up the same way. Thanks for the feed back.
Jerry
Lonie: This was what basically Bob Darden of Texas sidecar explained to me the other day on the phone..... seems you pros approach the set up the same way. Thanks for the feed back.
Jerry
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 9:40 amThis may sound vain but the reason I was concerned about leanout is because my buddies at work would come up and say to me "man, why is your bike crooked...you look like your gonna fall over". So I had them take a picture of me on it and they were right. But, alas, Claude comes to the rescue again...my subframe adjustments were shifting under load, so I was constantly adjusting the damn leanout. Claude, if you see this post, thanks for all the help..actually thank all of ya'll.
This may sound vain but the reason I was concerned about leanout is because my buddies at work would come up and say to me "man, why is your bike crooked...you look like your gonna fall over". So I had them take a picture of me on it and they were right. But, alas, Claude comes to the rescue again...my subframe adjustments were shifting under load, so I was constantly adjusting the damn leanout. Claude, if you see this post, thanks for all the help..actually thank all of ya'll.
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 4:05 pmI've been pondering how to address the ease with which the sidecar wheel comes up on my rig with my light passenger (apart from adding ballast - I'd rather make setup improvements first) and would also like to thank contributors to this thread - it has been most helpful. I think my rig is running considerably more lean out than required. I also think the chair could be lower and further out than it currently is - have been thinking these two for a while, but it was great to hear some more experienced thoughts on all this.
Stout
I've been pondering how to address the ease with which the sidecar wheel comes up on my rig with my light passenger (apart from adding ballast - I'd rather make setup improvements first) and would also like to thank contributors to this thread - it has been most helpful. I think my rig is running considerably more lean out than required. I also think the chair could be lower and further out than it currently is - have been thinking these two for a while, but it was great to hear some more experienced thoughts on all this.
Stout
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 5:58 pmThere are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles.
The speed where you want neutral handling. The wind resistance or drag on the sidecar changes as a square of the speed. this means a speed change of say 20 mph from 50 to 70 can double the pull the sidecar exerts on the rig. Unless you have a way to adjust the lean while riding you have to pick a target speed to set up the rig for neutral handling. It can't have a sweet spot everywhere.
The crown of the road. Narrow secondary roads can have several degrees difference in crown from riding the centerlane of a 3 lane interstate. Again pick a target, you can't have leanout adjusted perfect for both.
The traction of the sidecar tire vs. the traction of the bike tire. The amount of effect the toe in of the sidecar tire will have on the handling of the rig will relate to the ratio of traction between the sidecar tire and bike tire. The amount of toe in on an unloaded velorex mounted to a goldwing will have very little effect on handling or tire wear on the bike. A heavy sidecar with an adult passenger and full set of camping gear will quickly shred the tire of a lighter bike and have considerable effect on the rig's handling if the toe is not perfect.
The toe helps you go straight until you ride through the speed where your front end shakes. When your front end stops shaking you have reached a point where tire slip is equalized between the sidecar and bike, the toe is no longer helping the rig go straight, now the rig travel's somewhat sideways down the road. Before it shakes the toe is pushing the bike and you are steering to compensate for it. During headshake the sidecar tire is pushing on the front wheel then slipping, then pushing again this shake is compounded by excess trail in your front end. When you have passed the speed where headshake ends the rear bike tire and sidecar tire are slipping at their equlilibrium point. The amount of slip in each tire is based on the amount of traction it has compared to the other, and the amount of toe in set on the sidecar wheel. You can demonstrate this by cranking you toe in and out and you will notice the speed where your head shakes changes. If you have reduced trail it will be much harder to notice, but will still be present, unless you have zero trail. This tire slippage is what causes uneven tire wear on your rear bike and sidecar tires.
You can observe the point where your tires change from tracking to slipping if you lay down fresh tracks on the wet pavement in a parking lot and go back and look at them where you accelerated through the headshake. You will see the relationship of the three tire tracks changed in this speed zone. At slow speeds you will see the bike wheels sharing a single track and the sidecar wheel will have it's own. At speed the bike's front wheel track will move towards the centerline of the rig, not much but enough that it should show in the wet.
Amount of ballast. The location of the ballast, and weight of the sidecar is very important. Think of your sidecar frame as a lever sticking out from the side of the motorcycle. 100 lbs 2 feet out will have the same effect as 50 lbs 4 ft out from the bikes centerline. The same sidecar rigged with a wider track will have the same affect as adding ballast.
Width of rig. Once again think of you sidecar frame as a lever. The same exact chair, set a few inches wider, will require additional lean. As the wind resistance movers further out the lever from the centerline of the bike, the more pull it will exert on the rig.
None of this is suggests how a paticular rig should be set up, only to point out that comparing numbers from one rig to another is near meaningless, unless you try to factor in the differences between the rigs. For numbers to be comparable you would need riders of the same weight on identical rigs with the same tires and passengers, traveling the same roads at the same speeds.
This is no
There are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles.
The speed where you want neutral handling. The wind resistance or drag on the sidecar changes as a square of the speed. this means a speed change of say 20 mph from 50 to 70 can double the pull the sidecar exerts on the rig. Unless you have a way to adjust the lean while riding you have to pick a target speed to set up the rig for neutral handling. It can't have a sweet spot everywhere.
The crown of the road. Narrow secondary roads can have several degrees difference in crown from riding the centerlane of a 3 lane interstate. Again pick a target, you can't have leanout adjusted perfect for both.
The traction of the sidecar tire vs. the traction of the bike tire. The amount of effect the toe in of the sidecar tire will have on the handling of the rig will relate to the ratio of traction between the sidecar tire and bike tire. The amount of toe in on an unloaded velorex mounted to a goldwing will have very little effect on handling or tire wear on the bike. A heavy sidecar with an adult passenger and full set of camping gear will quickly shred the tire of a lighter bike and have considerable effect on the rig's handling if the toe is not perfect.
The toe helps you go straight until you ride through the speed where your front end shakes. When your front end stops shaking you have reached a point where tire slip is equalized between the sidecar and bike, the toe is no longer helping the rig go straight, now the rig travel's somewhat sideways down the road. Before it shakes the toe is pushing the bike and you are steering to compensate for it. During headshake the sidecar tire is pushing on the front wheel then slipping, then pushing again this shake is compounded by excess trail in your front end. When you have passed the speed where headshake ends the rear bike tire and sidecar tire are slipping at their equlilibrium point. The amount of slip in each tire is based on the amount of traction it has compared to the other, and the amount of toe in set on the sidecar wheel. You can demonstrate this by cranking you toe in and out and you will notice the speed where your head shakes changes. If you have reduced trail it will be much harder to notice, but will still be present, unless you have zero trail. This tire slippage is what causes uneven tire wear on your rear bike and sidecar tires.
You can observe the point where your tires change from tracking to slipping if you lay down fresh tracks on the wet pavement in a parking lot and go back and look at them where you accelerated through the headshake. You will see the relationship of the three tire tracks changed in this speed zone. At slow speeds you will see the bike wheels sharing a single track and the sidecar wheel will have it's own. At speed the bike's front wheel track will move towards the centerline of the rig, not much but enough that it should show in the wet.
Amount of ballast. The location of the ballast, and weight of the sidecar is very important. Think of your sidecar frame as a lever sticking out from the side of the motorcycle. 100 lbs 2 feet out will have the same effect as 50 lbs 4 ft out from the bikes centerline. The same sidecar rigged with a wider track will have the same affect as adding ballast.
Width of rig. Once again think of you sidecar frame as a lever. The same exact chair, set a few inches wider, will require additional lean. As the wind resistance movers further out the lever from the centerline of the bike, the more pull it will exert on the rig.
None of this is suggests how a paticular rig should be set up, only to point out that comparing numbers from one rig to another is near meaningless, unless you try to factor in the differences between the rigs. For numbers to be comparable you would need riders of the same weight on identical rigs with the same tires and passengers, traveling the same roads at the same speeds.
This is no
Quote from Guest on February 2, 2007, 8:05 pmFor sure wind speed and direction has a big effect on pull, especially if you have a substaintial windsheild (drag) on the sidecar. As for my rig, after changing the toe in so there is no more pull to the right, I have not noticed any pull one way or the other all the way to 80 mph. Before changing the toe in the faster I went, the more the rig pulled to the right.
For sure wind speed and direction has a big effect on pull, especially if you have a substaintial windsheild (drag) on the sidecar. As for my rig, after changing the toe in so there is no more pull to the right, I have not noticed any pull one way or the other all the way to 80 mph. Before changing the toe in the faster I went, the more the rig pulled to the right.
Quote from claude #3563 on February 2, 2007, 8:21 pmOriginally written by Stout on 2/2/2007 4:05 PM
I've been pondering how to address the ease with which the sidecar wheel comes up on my rig with my light passenger (apart from adding ballast - I'd rather make setup improvements first) and would also like to thank contributors to this thread - it has been most helpful. I think my rig is running considerably more lean out than required. I also think the chair could be lower and further out than it currently is - have been thinking these two for a while, but it was great to hear some more experienced thoughts on all this.StoutWhat sidecar and bike do you have Stout?
Originally written by Stout on 2/2/2007 4:05 PM
I've been pondering how to address the ease with which the sidecar wheel comes up on my rig with my light passenger (apart from adding ballast - I'd rather make setup improvements first) and would also like to thank contributors to this thread - it has been most helpful. I think my rig is running considerably more lean out than required. I also think the chair could be lower and further out than it currently is - have been thinking these two for a while, but it was great to hear some more experienced thoughts on all this.Stout
What sidecar and bike do you have Stout?
Quote from Guest on February 3, 2007, 5:37 pmThe factory recomendation for my Dnepr MT-16 is zero lean out and 1/4 to 3/8 inches of toe in. Because of its full time two wheel drive, it has less lead than the MT-11, about 6", the lead is not adjustable.
With the driven/braked sidecar wheel, it doesn't pull one way or the other, when accelerating or braking and it seems immune to road camber.
I have a windshield on the sidecar, but not on the tug. A headwind just slows the rig down, it doesn't push it one way or another.
Of course it has a top speed of only 60 mph, maybe if it went faster, I would notice it pulling one way or another at speed.
Dave
The factory recomendation for my Dnepr MT-16 is zero lean out and 1/4 to 3/8 inches of toe in. Because of its full time two wheel drive, it has less lead than the MT-11, about 6", the lead is not adjustable.
With the driven/braked sidecar wheel, it doesn't pull one way or the other, when accelerating or braking and it seems immune to road camber.
I have a windshield on the sidecar, but not on the tug. A headwind just slows the rig down, it doesn't push it one way or another.
Of course it has a top speed of only 60 mph, maybe if it went faster, I would notice it pulling one way or another at speed.
Dave
Quote from gnm109 on February 3, 2007, 8:24 pmIt's interesting that you have a full-time two wheel drive. Does it have a differentlal in the drive unit?
It's interesting that you have a full-time two wheel drive. Does it have a differentlal in the drive unit?
Quote from Guest on February 3, 2007, 11:04 pmYes, it has a differential. It also has a rather elaborate system of two planetary gear boxes and a spring steel shaft to the sidecar to allow for sidecar wheel lead and adsorbing the shock of the hack wheel bouncing and grabbing for traction on rough surfaces. The driveshaft to the sidecar wheel turns in the opposite direction of the wheels at about twice the wheel speed.
Flying the car is a very temporary thing with the two wheel drive, when the hack wheel comes off the ground, all the torque is diverted to the wheel in the air, the rig slows and the wheel comes down.
Dave
Yes, it has a differential. It also has a rather elaborate system of two planetary gear boxes and a spring steel shaft to the sidecar to allow for sidecar wheel lead and adsorbing the shock of the hack wheel bouncing and grabbing for traction on rough surfaces. The driveshaft to the sidecar wheel turns in the opposite direction of the wheels at about twice the wheel speed.
Flying the car is a very temporary thing with the two wheel drive, when the hack wheel comes off the ground, all the torque is diverted to the wheel in the air, the rig slows and the wheel comes down.
Dave
Quote from gnm109 on February 4, 2007, 10:00 amVery good.
I read the recent article in Cycle World by Peter Egan about the trip he took with his wife in a Ural. It has a selectable 2WD but there is no differential. Therefore, he was advised by the distributor that he should only use the 2WD on soft ground, not on the pavement.
Your system sounds more sophisticated.
Thanks.
GNM109
Very good.
I read the recent article in Cycle World by Peter Egan about the trip he took with his wife in a Ural. It has a selectable 2WD but there is no differential. Therefore, he was advised by the distributor that he should only use the 2WD on soft ground, not on the pavement.
Your system sounds more sophisticated.
Thanks.
GNM109
Quote from Guest on February 4, 2007, 11:36 amTHanks for posting this, Tod. This may be the clearest explanation i have seen yet. I am saving it to consider more thoughtfully and perhaps play with a bit.
"There are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles...(concise and astute observations snipped-read previous post by tkpinsc)"
THanks for posting this, Tod. This may be the clearest explanation i have seen yet. I am saving it to consider more thoughtfully and perhaps play with a bit.
"There are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles...(concise and astute observations snipped-read previous post by tkpinsc)"
Quote from claude #3563 on February 4, 2007, 8:11 pmOriginally written by RedMenace on 2/4/2007 11:36 AM
THanks for posting this, Tod. This may be the clearest explanation i have seen yet. I am saving it to consider more thoughtfully and perhaps play with a bit."There are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles...(concise and astute observations snipped-read previous post by tkpinsc)"Ditto Tod, good post and a lot of stuff to think on. YOU SHOUDL POST MORE OFTEN!
Originally written by RedMenace on 2/4/2007 11:36 AM
THanks for posting this, Tod. This may be the clearest explanation i have seen yet. I am saving it to consider more thoughtfully and perhaps play with a bit."There are several factors not addressed in this thread that affect the amount of toe and lean required for a given rig and the effect that adjustments will have on the way a rig handles...(concise and astute observations snipped-read previous post by tkpinsc)"
Ditto Tod, good post and a lot of stuff to think on. YOU SHOUDL POST MORE OFTEN!
Quote from Guest on February 6, 2007, 4:23 pmClaude,
I have a '77 BMW R100RS with a California Friendship II. I have uploaded a couple of images to my album on this site.
Stout
Claude,
I have a '77 BMW R100RS with a California Friendship II. I have uploaded a couple of images to my album on this site.
Stout
Quote from claude #3563 on February 6, 2007, 5:44 pmOriginally written by Stout on 2/6/2007 4:23 PM
Claude,I have a '77 BMW R100RS with a California Friendship II. I have uploaded a couple of images to my album on this site.StoutStout, I had asked you what your rig was because you had concens of the wheel coming up easily. Looked at you pics, very very nice lookimg rig! What kind of track width are you running? This means from center of rear bike tire to center of sidecar tire. I like to run between 48 and 52 inches with the wider preferred. Never could see any advantage to a narrow track as it does nothig for satbility and also can make working on the biek a hassle, especially with an airhead. Another factor is sidecar wheel lead. On our personal outfits we usually run a little more lead than many. This adds stability in left handers for us. It will also allow the sidecar wheel to come up easier which was your complaint to begin with. Keep in mind that everything is a compromise and what is 'right' for you may not be for someone else. It depends on riding style etc. I typically run a lot of twisty roads and prefer to run a sidecar on the heavier side with more lead. This gives it a good stability factor in left handers and also makes it behave well in right handers due to weight alone. We sometimes run a swaybar as well which makes a ton of difference but that is another story. Ballast? Al ballast is is a way to make a sidecar that may be lighter than it shoudl be a litttle heavier. Witha good suspension on th ehack a 'ballasted sidecar' can actually run better than a sidecar that is the same weight. This is because th eplacement of added ballast can be where it will be to your advantage. This is to th erear and as close to the outside as possible. Never add ballast in the nose!! Some speak lowly of adding ballast and I cannot understand why. If th esidecar is too light for you make it heavier as long as the suspension can handle it of course. There are no bragging rights in be able to run a ligth sidecar over a heavy one if it is not handling well. Nothing macho about creeping arond right handers or having to be a world class gymnist to get through the twisties. All in all..widen the track width if possible...add balalst if needed..and practice a lot. Your rig should be a decen thandler in time after a little tweaking here and there. From that point it can always be made even better through suspension mods and maybe a swaybar. Hope this made some common sense. Others may think otherwise but that's okay. Let's go run some twisties :-)...........................................................Sorry that there are no paragraphs in my posts. For some reason they never show up on thsi site recently.
Originally written by Stout on 2/6/2007 4:23 PM
Claude,I have a '77 BMW R100RS with a California Friendship II. I have uploaded a couple of images to my album on this site.Stout
Stout, I had asked you what your rig was because you had concens of the wheel coming up easily. Looked at you pics, very very nice lookimg rig! What kind of track width are you running? This means from center of rear bike tire to center of sidecar tire. I like to run between 48 and 52 inches with the wider preferred. Never could see any advantage to a narrow track as it does nothig for satbility and also can make working on the biek a hassle, especially with an airhead. Another factor is sidecar wheel lead. On our personal outfits we usually run a little more lead than many. This adds stability in left handers for us. It will also allow the sidecar wheel to come up easier which was your complaint to begin with. Keep in mind that everything is a compromise and what is 'right' for you may not be for someone else. It depends on riding style etc. I typically run a lot of twisty roads and prefer to run a sidecar on the heavier side with more lead. This gives it a good stability factor in left handers and also makes it behave well in right handers due to weight alone. We sometimes run a swaybar as well which makes a ton of difference but that is another story. Ballast? Al ballast is is a way to make a sidecar that may be lighter than it shoudl be a litttle heavier. Witha good suspension on th ehack a 'ballasted sidecar' can actually run better than a sidecar that is the same weight. This is because th eplacement of added ballast can be where it will be to your advantage. This is to th erear and as close to the outside as possible. Never add ballast in the nose!! Some speak lowly of adding ballast and I cannot understand why. If th esidecar is too light for you make it heavier as long as the suspension can handle it of course. There are no bragging rights in be able to run a ligth sidecar over a heavy one if it is not handling well. Nothing macho about creeping arond right handers or having to be a world class gymnist to get through the twisties. All in all..widen the track width if possible...add balalst if needed..and practice a lot. Your rig should be a decen thandler in time after a little tweaking here and there. From that point it can always be made even better through suspension mods and maybe a swaybar. Hope this made some common sense. Others may think otherwise but that's okay. Let's go run some twisties :-)...........................................................Sorry that there are no paragraphs in my posts. For some reason they never show up on thsi site recently.
Quote from MikeS on February 6, 2007, 9:41 pmTod
I appreciate your explanation of tracking before, during, and after the "head shake" period. It helps me grasp at some issues.
I have an complete EML Tourist T conversion on a '81 Wing, and the one thing that stills boggles me is rear drive tire wear. I have about 2* outward lean (loaded with 180# sand bags on the mule), which is very significant lean, but is an increase from my previous set ups. Toe in is about 3/4". One of the issues I'm concerned about is that my rear tire wears on the sidecar side of the tire. It seems a little less with the increased lean, but time will tell. I still don't understand, with even 1* outward lean, why the tire would wear on the sidecar side. Most of my miles are at highway speed, so I'm crabbing most of the time. I'd think the left side of the drive tire would wear faster than the sidecar side.
One issue I have in suspect is that my sidecar wheel has lean to it, lean away from the sidecar and mule. This might be an issue, but I'm not sure if/what it will do to the performance or tire wear. The sidecar wheel lean wouldn't be difficult to change, with some shims. My rig has two plates and six bolts on a plate where the sidecar suspension mounts to the sidecar frame - used for toe in adjustment. I can have tapered shims manufactured and placed between these plates. I'm not sure if this is a critical issue or not. It's suspect because logic says the sidecar wheel lean should contribute to pull to the right. Maybe my strange drive tire wear is effected by this, but I don't understand how.
I'm interested in any input on these issues.
Tod
I appreciate your explanation of tracking before, during, and after the "head shake" period. It helps me grasp at some issues.
I have an complete EML Tourist T conversion on a '81 Wing, and the one thing that stills boggles me is rear drive tire wear. I have about 2* outward lean (loaded with 180# sand bags on the mule), which is very significant lean, but is an increase from my previous set ups. Toe in is about 3/4". One of the issues I'm concerned about is that my rear tire wears on the sidecar side of the tire. It seems a little less with the increased lean, but time will tell. I still don't understand, with even 1* outward lean, why the tire would wear on the sidecar side. Most of my miles are at highway speed, so I'm crabbing most of the time. I'd think the left side of the drive tire would wear faster than the sidecar side.
One issue I have in suspect is that my sidecar wheel has lean to it, lean away from the sidecar and mule. This might be an issue, but I'm not sure if/what it will do to the performance or tire wear. The sidecar wheel lean wouldn't be difficult to change, with some shims. My rig has two plates and six bolts on a plate where the sidecar suspension mounts to the sidecar frame - used for toe in adjustment. I can have tapered shims manufactured and placed between these plates. I'm not sure if this is a critical issue or not. It's suspect because logic says the sidecar wheel lean should contribute to pull to the right. Maybe my strange drive tire wear is effected by this, but I don't understand how.
I'm interested in any input on these issues.