Quote from Deleted user on October 7, 2014, 5:40 pm

To each his own but I bought a used Ural that I rode for a couple years before adding the Liberty to my Harley. And I'm glad I learned on a 750. I didn't expect to like three wheels but my wife of many years, many bikes and many miles had decided to quit riding with me. I thought perhaps she'd like a sidecar. Her mind was made up but the boxer I had at the time loved it. And I was surprised to find out what a thrill the Ural was. So after a few years of riding the Ural more than the Harley, I knew there was no going back. Sold the Ural, my Kwik Kamp trailer and an old tractor and ordered the Liberty. The adventure continues.... One more thought.... If you can find a class nearby, it would be well worth your time and effort. Good luck and enjoy!!

Quote from Hack__n on October 7, 2014, 5:43 pm

Get a trial ride if possible, perhaps at a Rally or from an individual.
The best starter rig would be an affordable, ready to drive, used one. Don't spend a bunch on a rig with all the bucket list items you "think" you will need. Many have done this and some have found that sidecaring wasn't their bag after all.
Think of all the almost new motorcycles you see for sale with 6 1/2 years of extended warranty still left and thousands of bucks worth of "needed" extras. Many of these have less than 500 or 600 miles on them, but the owner went first class when buying them, only to take a big loss when the wife or others wouldn't ride with them.

Lonnie

Quote from jaydmc on October 7, 2014, 5:51 pm

You could build a rig however it is a lot less money usually to buy an already assembled rig. If you go this route make sure that it was put together properly using bike specific NOT universal mount. Sidecars that are assembled with "universal" mounts in general tend to not be as well thought out as rigs assembled with bike specific mounts and as such often have flex in the system and or are set up just plain wrong and as such many not be a joy to ride. The only entry level type factory assembled rig I know of was the MZ silverstarr Gespan which it is my understanding that they only sold 20 of these. I owned one for a while great little 500cc starter bike.
You say one of the types of riding you do is dual sport. Dual sport sidecars can be a blast to ride and they can be assembled for a reasonable price around bikes like the KLR 650 and the DR 650. We make sidecars as well as mounts for these and many other bikes. Bikes like the KLR while they still have as much trail as most other bikes as they are lighter and have wide bars and an up right seating position tend to be easier to live with, with stock trail then other bikes. We can also help with mounts should you chose to assemble a rig your self around a used bike or sidecar. If you go this route contact me before you buy, some sidecars are not a safe match up with some bikes and you want to make sure that the bike you go with their are mounts for.
You could also take a sidecar class http://evergreenmotorcycletraining.org/ bikes with sidecars are provided. We offer the book "driving a sidecar outfit" by David Hough that will answer questions you do not even know to ask. We sell it for $34.95 White horse press also offers it.
A Ural can also be a good first time bike if you buy a newer bike and under stand what it is and is not. It is an old design that does require you do regular service work to it. The older the Ural in general the lower the price but they also tend to be much worse on reliability. The Ural is not a dump gas in it and ride down the freeway all day bike, it is a secondary roads bike. I like to think of them as fun toys that should never be confused with transportation.
Feel free to email me or phone me with any specific questions.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
jay@dmcsidecars.com
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

Quote from Al Olme on October 7, 2014, 9:00 pm

Jay is right. Buy a used rig AFTER you take a test ride to see if sidecars are right for you. Don't spend a wad on a fancy rig and then find out that you're just not a sidecar guy. I'm sure what one you rid a rig you'll be hooked but DO get a ride before you by anything.

Quote from Phelonius on October 7, 2014, 10:21 pm

Or you could buy an expensive rig and find out that sidecaring is not for you and sell it cheap to one of us.

Quote from Peter Pan on October 7, 2014, 11:29 pm

once again my Windows Nokia phone screwed up a post. So here the essence once again.

I had/have 3 so called starter rigs. MZ ETZ250 / Jawa 350 / Ural Patrol.
Only oonce in my life I had the change to try a "professional" rig R100/EML, heavy peace of no fun on grass.
The 2 strokers are only good in flat cold country, excellent as winter short distance commuter. As they are lightweight and old school they are fun to race at road legal speeds.
The Jawa in my eyes is a very good trainer for 2 and 3 wheel as it is for a small to medium size person well proportioned with good breaks, but scary in the first emergency sway.
I feel muskle refects get trained much better on a light rig then on a heavy rig...its just not everybodies cup of tee.
If I would return to old Germany, The 350 Jawa rig would be my first choice for a winter job short distance commuter.
MZ and Jawa resale value 0,01

The Ural is heavy, low powered and needs a lot of patience and good will of the owner to educate it. (run in properly and tweek until reliable) For a calm person in rural flat area a good rig to learn the basics. Nice for weekend trips with the grandkids on back and gravel roads (town or commuter...no fun at all). Resale value 0,3 to 0,6

The KLR with an enduro sidecar in a country not as tough as our steep mountain range in CR possibly would be a cheap start...but i suspect an Enduro rig doesn't educate for a decent riding style. As well as there will be a poor resale value 0,5 or less. (when I realised how flimsy the frame is(at 2000mi I had the tail in my hand), I declined converting it into a rig)

Something like the Suzuki Savage is wasted money. (PS Note: the few ones I met over the years were completely screwed up. As Phelonius states further down he had very good luck with his one, so I better shut up on this one, his oppinion is valuable to me).
A GS650 possibly will give some better value and reliability.
For town overland and family riding I would go with a 750 watercooled Japaneese twin or Vtwin and a little heavier 1 1/2 seater. Then you have reliability, economics and long term use pretty well arranged.

Things You should take into account:
Your personality, weight, intentions, riding style.
Your environment, street conditions, distances, pretended use and frequency.
Acceptance of the boss in the house...

Don't laugh, a rig becomes a part of the family as the dog or cat...they all have their own personality and temperament.
And most of all they are addictive.
Sven

Quote from SwampFox on October 8, 2014, 7:51 am

Peter Pan - 10/7/2014 11:29 PM
.....................................................
Things You should take into account:
Your personality, weight, intentions, riding style.
Your environment, street conditions, distances, pretended use and frequency.
Acceptance of the boss in the house...

Don't laugh, a rig becomes a part of the family as the dog or cat...they all have their own personality and temperament.
And most of all they are addictive.
Sven

Tray, you just missed the recent gathering of sidecars about 4 hours west during the Uncertain?Rendezvous at Caddo Lake where you could have seen 30 rigs of almost every shape, color & size (with exception of a high-performance rig).

If you have the patience for for an older UJM motorcycle and such meets the above criteria so well-stated by Sven, something like this has potential of being a good "starter rig" - http://allentown.craigslist.org/mcy/4690700061.html

There is no trail reduction, but some wider handlebars with more leverage should help steering effort and control. Please send me a PM if you'd like to visit over the phone.

Quote from Peter Pan on October 8, 2014, 9:51 am

Lee, that is one of the nice engines that last and last and last, Only 23.000miles? I have seen one of these engines but in the conventional frame with some 72.000 miles a short time ago, the owner states in the 25 years he had no issues at all. Watching that gentlemen, I believe him.

This Yami has a very low point of gravity the old Velorex might need still some extra ballast. the upright little backward riding position is not everybodies taste. (Probably the first thing to go is the wind shield)
For the price there is a lot of budget left for a steering upgrade.(optional)

How are the connectors made? Subframe and dedicated mounts?
Then you have a good starter. that might be kept for the youngsters to get trained when they make their licence.
Mi concept for train the kids driving:
first rig that trains their brain and teaches them physics and the involved forces in the most direct way on earth.
Then Solo for to gain experience and learn about the behaviour of all traffic participants.
and last car or truck...In fact I prefer any truck above a sedan. (You see what is happening)

Miss daughter did threw up when she hit a tree with the rig, (no personal damage at all, just the impression and a new gear shift shaft) Now University has her time comepletely bound.
Mr son insisted first to make the flying licence, Achieved the goal a month ago, So next step is to get him the Jawa reassembled with the Husquarna engine and pass it through registration.

Tray, I wish you luck with your search.
Sven

Quote from Phelonius on October 8, 2014, 5:40 pm

I will differ with the attitude that a Suzuki Savage is a waste of money.
I hade one pull a velorex for 4 years through Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montane and British Columbia
reliably for many trips and campouts. It handled great, did highway speeds with no problem for hours at a time.
The two best things you can do for it is a set of super bars and convert it to chain drive.
Its' ease of drive ability makes it an outstanding first rig. I have owned and ridden ten sidecar rigs since 1968
So I have a lot to compare it with.

Attached files

Quote from Peter Pan on October 8, 2014, 10:00 pm

As for the deserved hair pull from Jim Phelonius I did edit my above comment about the Suzuki Savage:

(PS Note: the few ones I met over the years were completely screwed up. As Phelonius states further down he had very good luck with his one, so I better shut up on this one, his oppinion is valuable to me).
Jim, do you accept my apologies?
Sven

Quote from Phelonius on October 8, 2014, 11:57 pm

Of course, I have no way of knowing how the ones you saw were set up. Possibly a case of builders ignorance of sidecar set up.

BTW one of my good friends is a sidecar instructor in Seattle. After seeing mine he built one himself and liked it as much as I liked mine.

He says my old one has shown up at his school twice with two different students and is still going strong. I sold it almost 5 years ago.

Quote from jaydmc on October 9, 2014, 10:32 am

Here are some photo's of a Savage we did, slightly modified from stock.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

Attached files

Quote from Swordsman on October 9, 2014, 4:49 pm

I cut my sidecar teeth on a 2010 Ural T. I feel like that was a good introduction to sidecar RIDING. It's a purpose built machine, rugged enough to shrug off minor mishaps with little or no damage, and slow enough that you should be able to stay out of trouble (no guarantees, of course). A little pricey for the newer ones, but again, they're a proven design, so you're highly unlikely to run into any issues related to rig conversion. You definitely have to be in love with it though to suffer the constant maintenance, and once you get the hang of it, you'll crave more top end (60 mph is really pushing a Ural's limits). I truly did love mine... put it up for sale 2 or 3 different times and then changed my mind before it sold. Finally decided I needed a more whole-family oriented toy, so I sold it and bought a Jeep. But man, here we are 8 months later and I'm seriously jonesin' for another rig!

Quote from Crilly on October 9, 2014, 8:42 pm

🙂 I have only ridden six different rigs in the last year. They are all set up a little different. Plus different loading.
My conclusion is there is no starter rig. You have to learn to ride them safely each time you ride them. Good luck.
By the way I rode them over 22,000 miles.

Quote from SwampFox on October 10, 2014, 8:19 am

Crilly - 10/9/2014 8:42 PM
... My conclusion is there is no starter rig. You have to learn to ride them safely each time you ride them....

Very true. Whereas a smaller cc/lightweight motorcycle is generally a good starter/learner for 2-wheels, such is not necessarily the situation with sidecar rigs. For example, the "little" MZ Silverstar Gespann imported back in the '90's would appear to be a good "starter rig" due to its smaller dimensions:

However, the Silverstar requires the full compliment of sidecar operating skills to safely operate at anything more than a sedate pace. The driving dynamics of the wider/heavier touring rigs are quite different; similar, but different. And changing load/ballast in the sidecar affects push/pull/lift different on every rig.

Quote from Tray on October 10, 2014, 3:53 pm

Great info from all! My initial impression is that I like the concept of the Ural type with 2 wheel drive available. The do anything, rugged type is appealing. My reading of issues and fairly constant maintenance with the Urals seems to hold me back as well as their lack of higher speed capability for interstate travel. I'd like to hear from Ural owners about their personal experience both good and bad.

My fondness of Airhead BMW's have me wishing there was a R80/90/100 with 2 wheel drive with a hack big enough for wife and/or dog to ride comfortably. Preferably it will be able to handle interstate speeds while not requiring frequent maintenance.

Heavier would seem to be more stable. Or so I think so based on what I have read.

I hate that I missed the gathering in Texas. I would have made the trip for sure! Hopefully there will be one close fairly soon!

Still reading and learning all I can, where I can.

Quote from jaydmc on October 10, 2014, 4:29 pm

For information on the Ural, try this link at anther forum. http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794963
In general 2wd is not really very use full on any thing but a Ural. Urals are heavy, low powered have skinny tires and do not have much ground clearance. A couple of years back I was running the Black Dog which is an AMA Enduro event in Oregon. After the event several of the sidecar riders we sitting around talking about the even. One after another Ural owner was talking about a difficult part of the trail where they had to use 2wd and really work to get through it. After a while I was able to figure out just where they were talking about. So when my turn came up, I was on a BMW R1100GS with our M72D sidecar I was able to tell them how I got through the hard area. All I said was, more throttle.
We can build 2WD on any of the R1200GS both water and oil cooled however really all you get with 2WD is bragging rights, a lighter wallet and stuck about 50 feet further down the trail then you would be with out it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1792

Quote from Guest on October 10, 2014, 4:57 pm

A one wheel drive Ural will do just about anything off road that a 2-wheel drive Ural can do and some things it can even do better. The older Troykas were also meant to be a solo bike, as well, so you can have the best of both worlds in owning one. Top speed on a Troya model will likely do better than a Patrol or a GearUp model, too. They are not meant to be a highway cruiser though, as the norm. The Troyka was not the only Ural built to be a solo though. You can indeed find other bikes that have been modified to add a hack to them, but the typical Ural will have all the accessories and such that were specifically built to make it a real sidecar unit from the get go. It may not have everything you specifically want and may not be just the right thing you would actually choose, but it is a good choice for the most part as a simplistic starter rig. It is really up to the individual as to what they want and what they wish to learn on. If life is in the slow lane for you and the back roads are more enticing that the open highway, then a Ural may be just the right thing to start out with. If your not a mechanic and maintenance is not you strong suite, then perhaps a bike that has a better dealership network may be the better choice. Most Uralists learn to turn a wrench immediately and that is often more of a plus than a minus to them. Not saying at all that a Ural is the best choice in any manner, but just that it is a good choice to at least consider. Me, I don't care in the least for the new model Urals and feel they are waaaaay overpriced, myself, but I would not trade off my '05 Troyka for any of the other choices out there, regrdless which brand. I guess I am just too attached to the minor quirks of it at this time. I like dependability, even if in a quirk. 🙂

Good luck in choosing wisely as to a pick that meets your own needs. Nothing wrong in the least in choosing something other than a Ural if that is what makes you satisfied.

Quote from Tray on October 12, 2014, 7:14 pm

Any idea to a street value for an 06 Ural Patrol with 2500 miles that is all stock except a machine gun mount? (Usually don't see that in a mc advert ??).