Quote from DRONE on August 23, 2012, 3:37 pm

What the hell is a Backer DD6? Some sort of chinese copy or rip-off of the Baker DD6? Where did you get this Backer DD6 and why did you think Champion would have heard of it?

Regarding the Baker DD6, for those who don't know, it's an aftermarket 6-speed gearset engineered to fit into 6 different Harley-Davidson models using 14 different configurations. Baker Drivetrain also makes a half dozen or more other gearsets besides the DD6 for a variety of Harleys. These include the DD5 (5-speed gearset), OD6 (6-speed with overdrive), DD6RV (6-speeds with reverse), DD7 (7-speed), the Frankentranny (don't ask), and others.

If the OP had asked the customer service rep at Champion which of Champion's five different reverse gear aftermarket add-on thingamajings was compatible with which of the 14 aftermarket add-on contraptions made by some other manufacturer, I would have been shocked -- SHOCKED -- that the rep did not know this bit of information which is obviously a core selling point for a mainstream high-volume modification such as this. Yes, truly he must be a "total idiot."

Quote from 46u on August 23, 2012, 4:29 pm

I told him Baker DD6 ON THE PHONE It does not stick out any more then a stock transmission. It was a builders kit and uses the stock case! If he did not know what a Baker DD6 is then how the heck does he know if it will or will not fit and if he knows why the heck could he tell me why not? The original cover where the clutch cable goes into is the stock one and under the cover looks just like the stock one so why would it not fit? He is the jerk that got snotty with me and yes I gave him more back. I have installed his reverse of coarse for the last time and have a good idea about it.

I have had the DD6 installed for over 2 years.

I ran a business for 13 years and NEVER tread a possible customer that way. No problem I will file about 5 complaints and I know it will not do much but I will cause him some hassle. 🙂 Happy to say I saw the real champion so called custoerm service before I bought from them. It is his $2,000 or more he lost and I am glade. Why did ye say if I buy one and do not even instal it that I could not return it???? What a jerk. 🙂

Quote from jaydmc on August 23, 2012, 5:11 pm

We are a dealer for Champion sidecars, They have told me in the past that while they have never in house installed one on the Baker many other people have and that they will work. I have not installed one my self to know, I know in the case of the 5 speed reverse kits the only issue we had was that the case bolts were 1/4 inch to long which was not an issue at all to fix, we just cut them down 1/4 inch.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

Quote from 46u on August 23, 2012, 6:17 pm

Thank you for your input why the heck did Ken not know? If I had a customer ask me I would say let me do some checking and I will get back to you or at least I do not know. It was evident the way he talked and how he talked he did not know!!!!! Guess that is why he got upset as he did not know and if he told me that it would be find. When he did not know what a Baker DD6 is all so tells he does not know! Sure puts a sour taste in my mouth if he tells these type of stories what other stories is he tell and running people off? Does any one here know Ken or who he is? With his treatment of customers they are sure turning some away. But now it is to late as I will not BUY any thing from Champion which is there lost and I will let others my experience. Then he told me if I bought one even if I did not instal it he would not take it back. What others do is up to them and is fine with me.
Thanks
Jeff

Quote from 46u on August 26, 2012, 5:58 pm

Seems I am not the only that thinks there service is terrible I have gotten PMs not only on this forum but others of people that feel the same. I have seen poor customer service be the down fall of a many small business.

Quote from 46u on September 20, 2012, 5:07 pm

I got a reply to my BBB complaint and they said they got rid of Ken wise move. I even called and asked for him but they said he no longer works for Champion. Just wonder how much money they lost over him? I know they lost around $2500 from me. I am amazed how many PMs I got from others on 3 different sites how up set people where with Champion you recon all was created by Ken?

Quote from Guest on September 22, 2012, 11:31 am

SO, I wonder how much Champion is committed to rebuilding it's goodwill. Disgruntled prospects/customers might take the time to find out. What could it hurt? Just saying...

Quote from Guest on September 27, 2012, 10:14 am

I guess for me one bad employee does not make a whole company bad. My protocol for running into an employee that appears to not be meeting my needs is to ask for a supervisor. Everyone has a boss. Usually a supervisor is in their position due to being a quality employee. If that fails to get me what I want then it's the owner or manager I need to speak to.

I would not base my rationale on whether or not I would buy from this company on what you have just told me. As what you told me is that the company removed the offending person. That says a lot for them. Kind of like Jack-in-the-Box - where was the safest place to eat after they got nailed for poorly made burgers? They were -

Just my .02

Quote from Johnny Sweet on September 27, 2012, 11:18 am

Champion must be doing something right, they went from sidecars to trikes and June of this year purchased Lehman Trikes, the one time largest tike company in the world. It's not a healthy thing when you have a disgruntled customer, but in this case no sale took place, hence no customer. I find it interesting that someone would take the time and energy to complain on a national/world forum about such a trivial matter. Most prudent people will make an effort in doing their " Do Diligence " and in this processes may come up against just such an employ. I've talked to many uninformed representatives working for company's my entire life. I shrug em off and keep on moving so that I can accomplish whatever it is I'm trying to figure out. Is it me or is the world producing more and more people that have nothing better to do than complain about the smallest things in life.
In closing, if Champion was such a bad company to do buisness with they wouldn't have grown and become one of the largest most successful sidecar, trike company's going. I saw the post and thought I would rebuttal for Champion not that they need it, but I at one time was part of the Sidecar and Trike manufacturing world.
Johnny Sweet,
jsweet450@yahoo.com

Quote from Hack__n on September 27, 2012, 11:57 am

Like California Sidecar Company (Where Champion got it's start by liberating some of their personell and technology) Champion is no longer interested in the sidecar business. The Baby boomers and GenX's seem more interested in Tricycles these days and that is where the lucrative business is. They've made another smart business choice that matches the times. CSC has suspended all sidecar production.

We are dinosaurs. The "In Crowd" wants tricycles.

DFFD
Lonnie

Quote from Chuck on September 27, 2012, 12:07 pm

Hack'n - 9/27/2012 12:57 PM We are dinosaurs. The "In Crowd" wants tricycles. DFFD Lonnie

But I am a happy one, could also be a short lived fad, hey to each their own

Quote from 46u on September 27, 2012, 1:46 pm

Johnny Sweet - 9/27/2012 12:18 PM

Champion must be doing something right, they went from sidecars to trikes and June of this year purchased Lehman Trikes, the one time largest tike company in the world. It's not a healthy thing when you have a disgruntled customer, but in this case no sale took place, hence no customer. I find it interesting that someone would take the time and energy to complain on a national/world forum about such a trivial matter. Most prudent people will make an effort in doing their " Do Diligence " and in this processes may come up against just such an employ. I've talked to many uninformed representatives working for company's my entire life. I shrug em off and keep on moving so that I can accomplish whatever it is I'm trying to figure out. Is it me or is the world producing more and more people that have nothing better to do than complain about the smallest things in life.
In closing, if Champion was such a bad company to do buisness with they wouldn't have grown and become one of the largest most successful sidecar, trike company's going. I saw the post and thought I would rebuttal for Champion not that they need it, but I at one time was part of the Sidecar and Trike manufacturing world.
Johnny Sweet,
jsweet450@yahoo.com

It is their fault I did not become a customer. If the agent for the company gets rude and does not know what they are talking about why would I buy from them? I have had MANY others PM me not only on this forum but others with the same problems with Champion so I am FAR from the only one! I guess I took my time to post here for the same reason you took time to replied to it. Either way the guy does not work their and all I asked was an apology which I never got which is not much to get someones business. 😉

Quote from Guest on September 27, 2012, 9:31 pm

I was just starting to deal w/ Champion about a side car for my future Elctra Glide and they seemd a tad pushy for my taste. Not to mention a bit pricey. There are plenty of other places out there for you, best of luck w/ the reverse kit when you find one and I may need the name of the place you got it from anyway w/ my side car.

Quote from Loon on September 28, 2012, 2:46 am

I'm with Chuck and Lonnie, may be a dinosaur but at least I'm a happy one. Friends have trikes that definitely look nice, but for me the sidecar is a much better fit with my personality. Don't mind being "different" and glad to be part of this like minded group. Still find it interesting that anytime a group of bikes get together it is the sidecars that people want to see, walking past the trikes, rockets and most everything else.

Quote from Wolfhound on September 28, 2012, 6:59 am

I have both and being a proud"Scooter Scum"(a nick name given me by a biker friend) both are scoots. That being said, the scoot trike is easier to ride but the
scoot/sidecar is more fun. And requires more riding skill. Being a small businessman I can see both sides of the bad service situation but I can say that once a
customer is lost by the impolite actions of an employee more will be lost as one customer knows others who may be looking to buy or use the service in question
and bad news travels fast.

Quote from Guest on October 4, 2012, 3:34 pm

Hmmmmm____ ! Well I guess I should put in a comment or two here being one of the people that left California Sidecars and eventually formed Champion Sidecars. I probably wouldn't have commented but the idea of taking technology from CSC at the time is laughable at best. Frankly they didn't have any to take. Why we left CSC is a personal matter and has or had no bearing on their products. We left with no intention of starting another company. It just happened that at our final dinner meeting before Peter and I were going to leave California we started joking about the quality of the CSC products and commenting to each other what we would do differently. During this Craig suggested that maybe we should and things started happening from there. Our first Escort sidecar was put together in a matter of weeks in Pete's garage so we could show it at Americade. It was not perfect but we got it there and sold quite a few. Finally there was a sidecar that was sized more for an adult. Entry was and still is as easy or easier than any out there. And imagine, an electrical trim system or TILT designed and named by Peter. Now it is standard in the industry. Then it was a first. Of course there was also real suspension, not the old stiff torsion bars that made owners use 16psi in their tires to get a decent ride. About three years later in 93 CSC finally realized they had to upgrade their FII to compete. They also had the FIII that they bought from EZS and renamed. Of course the triple tree modifications we did were the next thing they copied. I came up with the idea from conversations with our Japanese connection and we had Peter work out and design the details for the first GL1500 clamps. I still remember the customer that bought the one that CSC copied. Actually when they installed it on their test bike the steering was so light and quick it scared them. They reduced the amount of trail reduction to slow it down rather than ride it a bit and get used to it. Anyway, the point here is that maybe it is not a good idea to run off at the mouth about something you know nothing about.
As far as the salesman problem at Champion goes, he was fired. I also know a little more about this conversation than most and will just say that sometimes the attitude of the customer on the phone can aggravate the situation. I am not though saying that this gives the sales person license to be rude with customers. He paid for that mistake with his job.
At DMC we still do the best we can to support customers with CSC sidecars now they cannot get help from the manufacturer. Barry

Quote from Hack__n on October 4, 2012, 5:18 pm

I guess it's just a coincidence that the Champion Escort looks exactly like the California Friendship I and Friendship II sidecars.

Sorry, my error!

I guess this is all pretty much moot now that champion is walking away from sidecars in favor of tricycle conversions.

Lonnie

Quote from timo482 on October 4, 2012, 7:39 pm

the one good thing about the prevalence of trikes

sidecars are much rarer now

i run into a whole lot of harley guys who claim they know "all that is harley" and they just cant believe that my sidecar is factory till they look at the vin plate

to

Quote from Guest on October 4, 2012, 11:14 pm

Ok, you were talking about technology. Now you want to talk about body design. I have no problem saying we decided to use a body design similar to the FI and FII. Notice I said similar, not the same. I personally built the body and aside from the fact it was considerably larger, had a totally different front opening and actually had front running and turn signal lights, it even had a built in automotive tail light. A considerable step up from the little accessory lights on the rear (only) of the Friendship models. Both Peter and I wanted to go with a new design but Craig felt it was to our advantage to stay with a proven popular design similar to CSC models he had been selling for a number of years. Three years after the first Escort when CSC finally decided to upgrade their FII model, it is obvious from comparing the two bodies they at least pulled some of their new body design directly off of an Escort. Of course in keeping with their past history they eliminated the front running/signal light.
I ran the CSC parts department for a couple years and during summers drove their displays to shows around the country and helped sell their products so I know them very well. Aside from the poor suspension design that could in a worse case scenario break and cause complete loss of the wheel and swing arm, they had some very scary mounting systems. A lot of that got improved when Peter went to work for them for a short time.
Just as a footnote, CSC got their start by buying out another sidecar company. Sometimes the facts are stranger than fiction. LOL B