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harley tleu allignment
Quote from foodog2 on May 2, 2013, 7:15 pmOk I had the car off to get a new motor and when put back on it pulls hard to the right. It will pull you uphill over the crown from the left lane to the right lane. There were no adjustments made to the car just undid the two lower heim joint bolts and upper mount clamp on the downtube. I did get a new tire, same as before but not a whitewall and the shocks were low and I pumped them up from 0lbs to 15LB because it bottomed out riding without car. Would a new tire or shocks cause it to pull or be out of allignment? I checked the lean angle and it is between 1-2 deg lean in magneted anglefinder to the front outer disk ( new guage but not sure how acurate it is). The car frame and wheel might be a degree out of level. The rear frame tube was 0deg but the car roter measurement was a 1deg towards the bike. My 2x4s are bowed so I could not check toe. Anyone in the North Alabama (Nashville, Birmingham, or Atlanta) area that could help show me how to set it up. That's a few hours around me in north Alabama. I will ride to you and buy lunch 🙂 The dealer did it before the motor crapped out but i only had a few hundred miles on it. I do not remembering it pulling like this when I bought it where I needed to constantly steer left. This is my second rig and is not near as smoothe as my old CSM rig Claude set up for me.
Ok I had the car off to get a new motor and when put back on it pulls hard to the right. It will pull you uphill over the crown from the left lane to the right lane. There were no adjustments made to the car just undid the two lower heim joint bolts and upper mount clamp on the downtube. I did get a new tire, same as before but not a whitewall and the shocks were low and I pumped them up from 0lbs to 15LB because it bottomed out riding without car. Would a new tire or shocks cause it to pull or be out of allignment? I checked the lean angle and it is between 1-2 deg lean in magneted anglefinder to the front outer disk ( new guage but not sure how acurate it is). The car frame and wheel might be a degree out of level. The rear frame tube was 0deg but the car roter measurement was a 1deg towards the bike. My 2x4s are bowed so I could not check toe. Anyone in the North Alabama (Nashville, Birmingham, or Atlanta) area that could help show me how to set it up. That's a few hours around me in north Alabama. I will ride to you and buy lunch 🙂 The dealer did it before the motor crapped out but i only had a few hundred miles on it. I do not remembering it pulling like this when I bought it where I needed to constantly steer left. This is my second rig and is not near as smoothe as my old CSM rig Claude set up for me.
Quote from bikeridermark on May 3, 2013, 11:20 pmI would think a new chair tire would make it go left, if anything. I know my setup has leanout to make it track straight. (2001 Roadking with 1999 Harley chair)
The rods with the heim joints didn't get knocked out of alignment somehow?
I would think a new chair tire would make it go left, if anything. I know my setup has leanout to make it track straight. (2001 Roadking with 1999 Harley chair)
The rods with the heim joints didn't get knocked out of alignment somehow?
Quote from foodog2 on May 3, 2013, 11:35 pmI did not remove it and the shop that did swears and I believe they were careful. They had a bad sidecar experience before and learned not to touch any adjustments. I need to get some straight edges and just start from scratch and dial it in. I have never adjusted one so will give it a whirl this weekend. A local hd dealer said they would align it, but it was not great last time they aligned it but it was better than it is now. Besides after they sold me bike that needed an engine a month later I would not let them air my tires unless it was an emergency.
I think lean in is too much and sidecar level may be off. But do not want to fool with adjustments until I check the toe.
I did not remove it and the shop that did swears and I believe they were careful. They had a bad sidecar experience before and learned not to touch any adjustments. I need to get some straight edges and just start from scratch and dial it in. I have never adjusted one so will give it a whirl this weekend. A local hd dealer said they would align it, but it was not great last time they aligned it but it was better than it is now. Besides after they sold me bike that needed an engine a month later I would not let them air my tires unless it was an emergency.
I think lean in is too much and sidecar level may be off. But do not want to fool with adjustments until I check the toe.
Quote from claude #3563 on May 4, 2013, 10:19 amFeel free to give me a call. You can use string run over some blocks or something for a straightedge. too much Toe in will typically only give you more tire wear. Toe out will give apull to the right. Lean out makes it go left and lean it makes it go right. Always recheck toe in after messing with lean out. If it is a harley sidecar the shops typically go by the harley manual and will lean the bike in and not out. this is due to th eharley sidecar shaving no suspension on them. It is not always correct. The seat of one's pants is what setup is all about if you know what I mean. Again feel free to call 570 837 5120 shop .
Feel free to give me a call. You can use string run over some blocks or something for a straightedge. too much Toe in will typically only give you more tire wear. Toe out will give apull to the right. Lean out makes it go left and lean it makes it go right. Always recheck toe in after messing with lean out. If it is a harley sidecar the shops typically go by the harley manual and will lean the bike in and not out. this is due to th eharley sidecar shaving no suspension on them. It is not always correct. The seat of one's pants is what setup is all about if you know what I mean. Again feel free to call 570 837 5120 shop .
Quote from Hack__n on May 4, 2013, 10:25 amSteve,
With the combination of 2 degrees lean-in and 1 degree sidecar lean you have 3 degrees total which should make you able to knock down every mailbox in town while trying to drive a straight line.
Get some straight edges. Old 8' fluorescent tubes, angle iron, or? I use 1"x1"x.120" square tubing.
Place one tightly against the rear tire only on bricks or blocks to get a better reading.
Place the other (on blocks) against the sidecar wheel.
Take a measurement across from behind the rear bike tire and another across from in front of the front tire.
Set toe-in when front measurement 3/4" less than rear measurement.
Place your protractor on the left front brake rotor and sidecar with normal load, climb aboard the seat and see where the lean angle is.
Set lean-out at 1 degree positive with you on the saddle and you should be good to go on an average crowned roadway.
This should also take care of your sidecar lean-in problem if the lower mounts haven't been messed with.Good luck with it.
Lonnie Cook
Northwest Sidecars
Steve,
With the combination of 2 degrees lean-in and 1 degree sidecar lean you have 3 degrees total which should make you able to knock down every mailbox in town while trying to drive a straight line.
Get some straight edges. Old 8' fluorescent tubes, angle iron, or? I use 1"x1"x.120" square tubing.
Place one tightly against the rear tire only on bricks or blocks to get a better reading.
Place the other (on blocks) against the sidecar wheel.
Take a measurement across from behind the rear bike tire and another across from in front of the front tire.
Set toe-in when front measurement 3/4" less than rear measurement.
Place your protractor on the left front brake rotor and sidecar with normal load, climb aboard the seat and see where the lean angle is.
Set lean-out at 1 degree positive with you on the saddle and you should be good to go on an average crowned roadway.
This should also take care of your sidecar lean-in problem if the lower mounts haven't been messed with.
Good luck with it.
Lonnie Cook
Northwest Sidecars
Quote from foodog2 on May 4, 2013, 11:08 amThanks Claude, I am going to follow the manual and see how it goes and if I get stuck I will give you a call. It killed me to sell your rig but I needed the money to put a new engine in this one. I hope that when I get it set-up right it will handle as well as yours. I have big plans for you to build me a new once I scrape a few pennies together.
Thanks Claude, I am going to follow the manual and see how it goes and if I get stuck I will give you a call. It killed me to sell your rig but I needed the money to put a new engine in this one. I hope that when I get it set-up right it will handle as well as yours. I have big plans for you to build me a new once I scrape a few pennies together.
Quote from foodog2 on May 4, 2013, 11:28 amLonnie, thank you for the tips, shuold I not try to level the sidecar frame before any other adjustments? It looked in the manual like that is done with the u-bolts on the rear sidecar side of the mount. Should all the measurements be taken with me in the seat? what about the load in the car? I run 80lbs of ballast and my wife is a little more than that but I remove ballast whith a passenger. Shuold I leave the ballast in the car or put her in it? I ride 50/50 with a passenger.
Lonnie, thank you for the tips, shuold I not try to level the sidecar frame before any other adjustments? It looked in the manual like that is done with the u-bolts on the rear sidecar side of the mount. Should all the measurements be taken with me in the seat? what about the load in the car? I run 80lbs of ballast and my wife is a little more than that but I remove ballast whith a passenger. Shuold I leave the ballast in the car or put her in it? I ride 50/50 with a passenger.
Quote from Hack__n on May 4, 2013, 2:16 pmI think the increase in lean-out will probably take care of the sidecar sag since you will be lifting the mounts (right side) as you increase the bike lean to the left.
You could split the difference with 100# in the boat. My bride tops 135 and I still leave my 75# ballast in with little difference in handling.L.
I think the increase in lean-out will probably take care of the sidecar sag since you will be lifting the mounts (right side) as you increase the bike lean to the left.
You could split the difference with 100# in the boat. My bride tops 135 and I still leave my 75# ballast in with little difference in handling.
L.
Quote from claude #3563 on May 4, 2013, 4:52 pmBe very careful in using the front wheel for lean out measuements as if it is anything but pointed straight ahead the camber curve will give you a flase reading. Frankly we seldom use the common degree settings when setting up a sidecar as they all react a little3 different when loaded and different operators want different feeeling on the road. There is no all enclusive correct degree that will be 'right' for every outfit nor every road nor every sidecar jockey. Rulle of thumb: lean left to go left and lean right to go right and always recucek toe in after lean out ifs adjsuted....or at lease pllay with it so you know what changes in toe in may take place as you adjust lean out. No mystries here just simple things to play with.
Be very careful in using the front wheel for lean out measuements as if it is anything but pointed straight ahead the camber curve will give you a flase reading. Frankly we seldom use the common degree settings when setting up a sidecar as they all react a little3 different when loaded and different operators want different feeeling on the road. There is no all enclusive correct degree that will be 'right' for every outfit nor every road nor every sidecar jockey. Rulle of thumb: lean left to go left and lean right to go right and always recucek toe in after lean out ifs adjsuted....or at lease pllay with it so you know what changes in toe in may take place as you adjust lean out. No mystries here just simple things to play with.
Quote from foodog2 on May 4, 2013, 5:09 pmOk I bought a digital angle guage since I can't see those little lines. The bike leans 2 deg in and the car leans 2 deg in towards bike. The toe is 38 of a inch. I'm going to set ti to 1 out then check the toe and set it to 3/4. And go for a ride. Both the jam nuts for toe adjustment are loose so I assume it was messed with to take it off or the dealer sit it up crazy. I swear I ate half a tire in 1200 miles but I thought excessive toe did that.
Ok I bought a digital angle guage since I can't see those little lines. The bike leans 2 deg in and the car leans 2 deg in towards bike. The toe is 38 of a inch. I'm going to set ti to 1 out then check the toe and set it to 3/4. And go for a ride. Both the jam nuts for toe adjustment are loose so I assume it was messed with to take it off or the dealer sit it up crazy. I swear I ate half a tire in 1200 miles but I thought excessive toe did that.
Quote from Hack__n on May 4, 2013, 6:19 pmToo much toe-in or too little will both eat tires. They just get chewed up from the other side. After you have the car fair rigged and aligned check the sidecar tire after a hundred miles or so for any indication of tread scuffing. If it has a center groove and there is a rounded edge on one side and a feathered edge on the other it will indicate whether you need a bit more or less toe-in. If both sides are wearing even you are in alignment.
Lonnie
Too much toe-in or too little will both eat tires. They just get chewed up from the other side. After you have the car fair rigged and aligned check the sidecar tire after a hundred miles or so for any indication of tread scuffing. If it has a center groove and there is a rounded edge on one side and a feathered edge on the other it will indicate whether you need a bit more or less toe-in. If both sides are wearing even you are in alignment.
Lonnie
Quote from foodog2 on May 4, 2013, 7:06 pmI have the. +1 lean out and 3/4 toe and it it a little better. The car still leans +1 towards the bike but the frame is level at the axle. That seems odd to me. Also looking at the bike with my calibrated eye it looks to still lean in. Do I dare loosen those ubolts and. Put a jack under there to get the sidecar wheel perpendicular?
I have the. +1 lean out and 3/4 toe and it it a little better. The car still leans +1 towards the bike but the frame is level at the axle. That seems odd to me. Also looking at the bike with my calibrated eye it looks to still lean in. Do I dare loosen those ubolts and. Put a jack under there to get the sidecar wheel perpendicular?
Quote from Hack__n on May 4, 2013, 7:33 pmMight just be a visual. If the frame is level you should be OK. Remember when you are on a crowned road the rig will seem vertical. On a flat surface things look a bit awry.
Ride it a bit before going any farther with adjustments.
L.
Might just be a visual. If the frame is level you should be OK. Remember when you are on a crowned road the rig will seem vertical. On a flat surface things look a bit awry.
Ride it a bit before going any farther with adjustments.
L.
Quote from foodog2 on May 4, 2013, 8:21 pmI took a little bubble level and the frame is level at the axle end, however the sidecar wheel is a full bubble off on the brake disc. Could the axle or spindle be bent or installed crooked? after the other problems io ahve had with this bike nothing would suprise me. We have decided whoever bought it took 30K mile trip and never maintained it then sold it. The guy that tore the motor apart questioned the odometer readings the engine was so bad inside.
Anyway I will ride it tomorrow and play with it some more, i should have listened to Claude and checked lean at the back disc before I rode it. it is 0 deg at the rear wheel so I may adjust it out again in the morning but it took an hour or so to get the toe right after I adjusted the lean before. I only adjusted the front mount for toe before and not sure if that was the right way ot not..
I took a little bubble level and the frame is level at the axle end, however the sidecar wheel is a full bubble off on the brake disc. Could the axle or spindle be bent or installed crooked? after the other problems io ahve had with this bike nothing would suprise me. We have decided whoever bought it took 30K mile trip and never maintained it then sold it. The guy that tore the motor apart questioned the odometer readings the engine was so bad inside.
Anyway I will ride it tomorrow and play with it some more, i should have listened to Claude and checked lean at the back disc before I rode it. it is 0 deg at the rear wheel so I may adjust it out again in the morning but it took an hour or so to get the toe right after I adjusted the lean before. I only adjusted the front mount for toe before and not sure if that was the right way ot not..
Quote from Hack__n on May 5, 2013, 9:42 amYou might pick up a Harley sidecar manual on eBay and learn up a bit on the rig. They are pricey at the dealers.
From the sound of it you need to do a bit more adjusting.
Are you running maximum pressure (for sidecars) on your rear bike shocks?Oh, if you use the Harley Manual specs. Forget about their lean in recommendations. They're left over from the Harley Hardtial Panhead days and don't seem to give you neutral straight line steering. The sidecars haven't changed much chassis wise since then but the old bikes had no rear suspension, but they did have adjustable triple trees for easier sidecar steering.
Lonnie
You might pick up a Harley sidecar manual on eBay and learn up a bit on the rig. They are pricey at the dealers.
From the sound of it you need to do a bit more adjusting.
Are you running maximum pressure (for sidecars) on your rear bike shocks?
Oh, if you use the Harley Manual specs. Forget about their lean in recommendations. They're left over from the Harley Hardtial Panhead days and don't seem to give you neutral straight line steering. The sidecars haven't changed much chassis wise since then but the old bikes had no rear suspension, but they did have adjustable triple trees for easier sidecar steering.
Lonnie
Quote from foodog2 on May 5, 2013, 11:40 amI have the manual, and spent all morning fooling with it. The SC wheel is vertical toe is 3/4 and lean is +1 with me on it so it is off for a test ride. One of the rear mount set screws is stripped out and I am not sure how I will get it out. i am running 10lb in the shocks which is max for a solo rider and thats what owners manual suggested.
I have the manual, and spent all morning fooling with it. The SC wheel is vertical toe is 3/4 and lean is +1 with me on it so it is off for a test ride. One of the rear mount set screws is stripped out and I am not sure how I will get it out. i am running 10lb in the shocks which is max for a solo rider and thats what owners manual suggested.
Quote from foodog2 on May 5, 2013, 2:09 pmok after 50 miles on the highway and backroads it is pretty good. actually a vast improvement from where i started. i think a little more lean out but i need to ride it more as coming on the hard right freeway exit i had a little pucker doing 25.
ok after 50 miles on the highway and backroads it is pretty good. actually a vast improvement from where i started. i think a little more lean out but i need to ride it more as coming on the hard right freeway exit i had a little pucker doing 25.
Quote from Hack__n on May 5, 2013, 2:41 pmSome ballast behind the seat will help your laundry bill on those off camber right turns.
Remember slow before the turn and throttle out off the turn.L.
Some ballast behind the seat will help your laundry bill on those off camber right turns.
Remember slow before the turn and throttle out off the turn.
L.
Quote from foodog2 on May 5, 2013, 4:11 pmok around town on city and back roads it tracks true for the most part under 50mph. On the super slab it pulls to the right a little but not unmanageable. If I stayed in the left lane it tracked straight in the right lane it wants to go in the right median. Do you adjust yours differently for lots of highway riding? Or find the best compromise? I guess that is where the electric lean would be great. Too bad HD never did that.
ok around town on city and back roads it tracks true for the most part under 50mph. On the super slab it pulls to the right a little but not unmanageable. If I stayed in the left lane it tracked straight in the right lane it wants to go in the right median. Do you adjust yours differently for lots of highway riding? Or find the best compromise? I guess that is where the electric lean would be great. Too bad HD never did that.