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fuel ine for auxillary tank/bmw r1100r
Quote from draperg1 on March 6, 2013, 2:54 pmhas anyone plumbed a fuel bung into the plate that the fuel lines, fuel guage, etc. are attached to in the tunnel of gas tank on bmw? If so what did you use. I need a 1/4" female npt fitting. The plate seems thin to weld was thinking some type of compression fitting with gasket suitable for gas.
has anyone plumbed a fuel bung into the plate that the fuel lines, fuel guage, etc. are attached to in the tunnel of gas tank on bmw? If so what did you use. I need a 1/4" female npt fitting. The plate seems thin to weld was thinking some type of compression fitting with gasket suitable for gas.
Quote from SwampFox on March 8, 2013, 7:55 pmOK, I know next to nothing about this stuff, but: Can you plumb a T fitting into the fuel injection return line -- that is, after the pressure regulator?
OK, I know next to nothing about this stuff, but: Can you plumb a T fitting into the fuel injection return line -- that is, after the pressure regulator?
Quote from GTRider on March 13, 2013, 11:28 pmI've done one fuel cell on my R1100RSL and helped with a few others. That means I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but here goes...
No, you cannot just plumb a tee into the return line from the fuel injection rail. There is still pressure there, and you'll end up pressurizing your auxiliary tank. There was a large lump of molten aluminum (that used to be a K-bike engine) left in central Nevada by one of the first people to try the Tee into the fuel rail. Pressurized the tank, overflowed onto the exhaust system, and the fireworks display started.
Now, having said that, you CAN tee into the fuel return rail so long as you meet two conditions: One, that the line from the Tee to the aux tank incorporates a one-way valve to prevent pressurizing the aux tank, and Two, that you use an electric pump instead of gravity feed--you'll need the pump to overcome the pressure in the fuel return line. That gets to be a lot of plumbing and wiring but works OK, I used such a setup for an 11-day nearly non-stop ride back in 1997.
But I don't like pumps and fuses and wiring that can go wonky at the worst times, so I converted my setup to gravity. On my own bike I didn't go through the mounting plate for the fuel pump & filter, but drilled a hole in the bottom of the tank on the right side and installed a bulkhead fitting. That made for an easy attachment point and a nice drain to use for emptying the tank before removing for service, but one has to be very, very careful to seal that bulkhead fitting. Mine has held since 1999; YMMV.
The last cell I helped install on an oilhead used a fitting screwed into the fuel pump mounting plate. Plate was removed, stripped of pump and all fittings after carefully marking where the hold had to go, then the plate was drilled and a right-angle bulkhead fitting installed. Working on a metal plate instead of the plastic tank made things much easier in terms of sealing the fitting and adjusting it's position. Check out the Pingel brand of fittings as they have some that are designed to seal really well-- available at speed shops or probably even on Amazon.com. If you use any o-rings or such for sealing make sure they are Viton and not buna-n as the latter will break down over time. On the R11R if you pull the radiators out of the way you'll be able to see clearly into the space between the fuel pump plate and the main frame segment so you can pick the best location and angle for your fitting.
Lastly, plan your installation carefully if you are doing gravity feed. How much flow you get, and how fast the fuel transfers, will be determined first by the amount of "head" or height difference you have between aux tank and your fuel tank (and I usually measure that at or just above the mid-point of the main tank) and secondly by the size of the lines and fittings you have used. 5/16 would be a minimum, IMHO. Unfortunately, the higher the aux tank is mounted the worse the effect it has on handling--always a compromise between how much head you can get and how much the handling will be deteriorated. And, mount that aux tank securely--I've seen too many idiotic setups with boat tanks and webbing straps. Yikes!
Sorry to be so long-winded and pedantic.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes when you're done!
🙂Best,
GTRider
I've done one fuel cell on my R1100RSL and helped with a few others. That means I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but here goes...
No, you cannot just plumb a tee into the return line from the fuel injection rail. There is still pressure there, and you'll end up pressurizing your auxiliary tank. There was a large lump of molten aluminum (that used to be a K-bike engine) left in central Nevada by one of the first people to try the Tee into the fuel rail. Pressurized the tank, overflowed onto the exhaust system, and the fireworks display started.
Now, having said that, you CAN tee into the fuel return rail so long as you meet two conditions: One, that the line from the Tee to the aux tank incorporates a one-way valve to prevent pressurizing the aux tank, and Two, that you use an electric pump instead of gravity feed--you'll need the pump to overcome the pressure in the fuel return line. That gets to be a lot of plumbing and wiring but works OK, I used such a setup for an 11-day nearly non-stop ride back in 1997.
But I don't like pumps and fuses and wiring that can go wonky at the worst times, so I converted my setup to gravity. On my own bike I didn't go through the mounting plate for the fuel pump & filter, but drilled a hole in the bottom of the tank on the right side and installed a bulkhead fitting. That made for an easy attachment point and a nice drain to use for emptying the tank before removing for service, but one has to be very, very careful to seal that bulkhead fitting. Mine has held since 1999; YMMV.
The last cell I helped install on an oilhead used a fitting screwed into the fuel pump mounting plate. Plate was removed, stripped of pump and all fittings after carefully marking where the hold had to go, then the plate was drilled and a right-angle bulkhead fitting installed. Working on a metal plate instead of the plastic tank made things much easier in terms of sealing the fitting and adjusting it's position. Check out the Pingel brand of fittings as they have some that are designed to seal really well-- available at speed shops or probably even on Amazon.com. If you use any o-rings or such for sealing make sure they are Viton and not buna-n as the latter will break down over time. On the R11R if you pull the radiators out of the way you'll be able to see clearly into the space between the fuel pump plate and the main frame segment so you can pick the best location and angle for your fitting.
Lastly, plan your installation carefully if you are doing gravity feed. How much flow you get, and how fast the fuel transfers, will be determined first by the amount of "head" or height difference you have between aux tank and your fuel tank (and I usually measure that at or just above the mid-point of the main tank) and secondly by the size of the lines and fittings you have used. 5/16 would be a minimum, IMHO. Unfortunately, the higher the aux tank is mounted the worse the effect it has on handling--always a compromise between how much head you can get and how much the handling will be deteriorated. And, mount that aux tank securely--I've seen too many idiotic setups with boat tanks and webbing straps. Yikes!
Sorry to be so long-winded and pedantic.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes when you're done!
🙂
Best,
GTRider
Quote from draperg1 on March 14, 2013, 9:19 amThanks for the info, was about ready to screw up, however what you have said makes sense and now I will proceed in a more effective and safe manner. I ain't the best but I am coachable. Thanks again! 🙂
Thanks for the info, was about ready to screw up, however what you have said makes sense and now I will proceed in a more effective and safe manner. I ain't the best but I am coachable. Thanks again! 🙂
Quote from Peter Pan on March 14, 2013, 10:40 amDeVern, thank You for Your insight.
Myself I had right that idea, but no bike to check up with it. So I kept my mouth shut.
Anyhow I tinker in these days enough around with my KLR and soon the Jaquarna Jollyroger 2 1/2.
I espect today or tomorrow to recieve the Husquarna 450 engine for to put it into the Jawa rig.
Meanwhile I hook the side boxes to the KLR and study the Middlegerman road maps for the easter trip.
Harz mountains here we comes family Peter Arce.
Sven
DeVern, thank You for Your insight.
Myself I had right that idea, but no bike to check up with it. So I kept my mouth shut.
Anyhow I tinker in these days enough around with my KLR and soon the Jaquarna Jollyroger 2 1/2.
I espect today or tomorrow to recieve the Husquarna 450 engine for to put it into the Jawa rig.
Meanwhile I hook the side boxes to the KLR and study the Middlegerman road maps for the easter trip.
Harz mountains here we comes family Peter Arce.
Sven
Quote from draperg1 on April 7, 2013, 11:38 pmWell I got it plumbed based on all the good info received. Opted to plumb to return line with a check valve and fuel pump. Works great and will transfer 2 gallons in less than 5 min on the fly. Thanks for all the advice. 🙂
Well I got it plumbed based on all the good info received. Opted to plumb to return line with a check valve and fuel pump. Works great and will transfer 2 gallons in less than 5 min on the fly. Thanks for all the advice. 🙂