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Carrying a fire extinguisher
Quote from gilberth on January 2, 2009, 9:36 amI spent $20 at my local hardware store for a dry powder fire extinguisher. I'm trying to figure out the best place to put it. It's got to be readily accessible and yet not too close to the gas tank.I have saddle boxes but I think it would involve dealing with the latches if the extinguisher were put there. Am wondering about putting it either in or on the outside of the sidecar. Any suggestions?
Howard
'74 Guzzi Eldorado and '72 Veolo 560
I spent $20 at my local hardware store for a dry powder fire extinguisher. I'm trying to figure out the best place to put it. It's got to be readily accessible and yet not too close to the gas tank.I have saddle boxes but I think it would involve dealing with the latches if the extinguisher were put there. Am wondering about putting it either in or on the outside of the sidecar. Any suggestions?
Howard
'74 Guzzi Eldorado and '72 Veolo 560
Quote from Guest on January 2, 2009, 10:11 amrear of the sidecar? not to close to the road grime?,....just a thought,..happy new year, crawf.
rear of the sidecar? not to close to the road grime?,....just a thought,..happy new year, crawf.
Quote from Guest on January 2, 2009, 6:57 pmJust a personal thought and only my opinion, but I suspect the best place is to locate it inside your garage and forget it on the bike. Reason being, by the time you get to it and unlatch it for use, if lucky enough to do so in the first place, the rig will already be a disaster and having you close enough to it to do any good is risky business in the first place. Why get yourself hurt in trying to be a fire fighter?
Look at where most fires begin in sidecar rigs and you would likely find that you need to mount the thing in an area that is easily accessable for quick use. However, most such areas are not very asthetic in looks and probably worse as to what they do to the tip line dynamics of a rig.
Probably not the answer you want, but for me, I'd increase my insurance first if I was overly worried of a fire happening on my rig. It just seems like a safer bet. Besides, those cheapo fire extinguishers are not supposed to last forever without replacement, even if never used. Chances are pretty good that you will have a garage fire well before any on your sidecar, I suspect.
Just a personal thought and only my opinion, but I suspect the best place is to locate it inside your garage and forget it on the bike. Reason being, by the time you get to it and unlatch it for use, if lucky enough to do so in the first place, the rig will already be a disaster and having you close enough to it to do any good is risky business in the first place. Why get yourself hurt in trying to be a fire fighter?
Look at where most fires begin in sidecar rigs and you would likely find that you need to mount the thing in an area that is easily accessable for quick use. However, most such areas are not very asthetic in looks and probably worse as to what they do to the tip line dynamics of a rig.
Probably not the answer you want, but for me, I'd increase my insurance first if I was overly worried of a fire happening on my rig. It just seems like a safer bet. Besides, those cheapo fire extinguishers are not supposed to last forever without replacement, even if never used. Chances are pretty good that you will have a garage fire well before any on your sidecar, I suspect.
Quote from gilberth on January 2, 2009, 7:21 pmPat,
If there was on an board fire I certainly wouldn't do anything heroically foolish but for $20 it gives me a little peace of mind.
I'm also fully covered on my insurance policy.
You're probably right about there being a great possibility of a garage fire.
Since I park my bike in the garage I figure putting it on the bike makes it available for that purpose as well.
Howard
Pat,
If there was on an board fire I certainly wouldn't do anything heroically foolish but for $20 it gives me a little peace of mind.
I'm also fully covered on my insurance policy.
You're probably right about there being a great possibility of a garage fire.
Since I park my bike in the garage I figure putting it on the bike makes it available for that purpose as well.
Howard
Quote from Guest on January 2, 2009, 8:16 pmYou asked for suggestions, so this was mine and I meant no put-down intended in your choice to do such. Ultimately, if it makes you happy to have one on the hack, then by all means feel happy and do so. No one else has to be worried over your choice when it comes to that.
Me, it ain't my first choice though, so that was were I was comming from in what I said. Most sidecar fires I have seen on YouTube, other websites and such are not the sort of thing I'd wanna' try to put out with a fire extinguisher, as the gas tank on them was always too ready to blow from moment one of the fire. Not a pretty site to witness for the owners, but I am just not so sure any fire extinguisher at all would have helped in the least to save the rigs at the time.
Still, if it gives you peace of mind, then that is all you need to justify. You may well be correct, after all, so go for it. Post pics so we can all see the final application/installation on the rig. I'm interested in where you decide to locate it for the long run.
You asked for suggestions, so this was mine and I meant no put-down intended in your choice to do such. Ultimately, if it makes you happy to have one on the hack, then by all means feel happy and do so. No one else has to be worried over your choice when it comes to that.
Me, it ain't my first choice though, so that was were I was comming from in what I said. Most sidecar fires I have seen on YouTube, other websites and such are not the sort of thing I'd wanna' try to put out with a fire extinguisher, as the gas tank on them was always too ready to blow from moment one of the fire. Not a pretty site to witness for the owners, but I am just not so sure any fire extinguisher at all would have helped in the least to save the rigs at the time.
Still, if it gives you peace of mind, then that is all you need to justify. You may well be correct, after all, so go for it. Post pics so we can all see the final application/installation on the rig. I'm interested in where you decide to locate it for the long run.
Quote from SidecarMike on January 2, 2009, 8:19 pmI consider the fire extinguisher useful for less than catastrophic fires. A tipped lantern or spark hitting a nylon tent come to mind. Not the smartest spot, but for now I carry mine in the magnetic tank bag. Easy to grab and run if needed. Eventually, this winter, I plan to mount an extinguisher bracket to each side of my trailer hitch. One for the extinguisher and the other for my 33 oz. MSR gas bottle.
I'd like to find a double mount of some sort. Then I'd mount them side by side near the left rear of the sidecar.
I consider the fire extinguisher useful for less than catastrophic fires. A tipped lantern or spark hitting a nylon tent come to mind. Not the smartest spot, but for now I carry mine in the magnetic tank bag. Easy to grab and run if needed. Eventually, this winter, I plan to mount an extinguisher bracket to each side of my trailer hitch. One for the extinguisher and the other for my 33 oz. MSR gas bottle.
I'd like to find a double mount of some sort. Then I'd mount them side by side near the left rear of the sidecar.
Quote from Guest on January 3, 2009, 7:04 pmI've carried a fire extinguisher in every vehicle I've owned ever since I lost a VW bus to an engine fire years ago (a not uncommon happening on older VW buses). The one time I needed one was when the bus burned to a shell. On the rig it lives in the trunk. Granted that it may or may not be of use in case of need, I'd still rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I've carried a fire extinguisher in every vehicle I've owned ever since I lost a VW bus to an engine fire years ago (a not uncommon happening on older VW buses). The one time I needed one was when the bus burned to a shell. On the rig it lives in the trunk. Granted that it may or may not be of use in case of need, I'd still rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Quote from SidecarMike on January 3, 2009, 8:20 pmOriginally written by Tomcat101147 on 1/3/2009 5:04 PM
I've carried a fire extinguisher in every vehicle I've owned ever since I lost a VW bus to an engine fire years ago (a not uncommon happening on older VW buses). The one time I needed one was when the bus burned to a shell. On the rig it lives in the trunk. Granted that it may or may not be of use in case of need, I'd still rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I'm with you. And as far as them "Going bad", every five or six months, invert it and tap the bottom a couple times with a rubber mallet. The powder has a tendency to settle to the bottom and become a useless lump if you don't. I make a practice of doing it with each oil change. At the same time, I dump the MSR bottle in the gas tank and fill it with fresh gas.
For those of you who may be curious about the gas bottle, my wife likes to remind me that a fully loaded Moto Guzzi sidecar rig carrying two adults will travel an additional 6.9 miles to a gas station when someone forgets to top off before we leave town. :0) (She makes me carry two!)
Originally written by Tomcat101147 on 1/3/2009 5:04 PM
I've carried a fire extinguisher in every vehicle I've owned ever since I lost a VW bus to an engine fire years ago (a not uncommon happening on older VW buses). The one time I needed one was when the bus burned to a shell. On the rig it lives in the trunk. Granted that it may or may not be of use in case of need, I'd still rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I'm with you. And as far as them "Going bad", every five or six months, invert it and tap the bottom a couple times with a rubber mallet. The powder has a tendency to settle to the bottom and become a useless lump if you don't. I make a practice of doing it with each oil change. At the same time, I dump the MSR bottle in the gas tank and fill it with fresh gas.
For those of you who may be curious about the gas bottle, my wife likes to remind me that a fully loaded Moto Guzzi sidecar rig carrying two adults will travel an additional 6.9 miles to a gas station when someone forgets to top off before we leave town. :0) (She makes me carry two!)
Quote from gnm109 on January 4, 2009, 1:00 pmI guess that carrying a fire extinguisher might not be a bad idea. If you do so, it needs to be in an area where you could readily access it should the bike catch fire. Unfortunately, if it's out in the open, it's very likely to be stolen. Sorry to say that, but I've found that anything that isn't locked, welded on, riveted or bolted tight can and will be taken by the criminals among us.
In many years of riding, the only motorcycles I've seen burn were during refueling. The owner let fuel drip onto a hot motor. That's probably the most likely scenario. Proper care during refueling will go a long way towards making sure that you never have a fire.
When employees are present in a work area, the General Safety Orders, state and federal, require that hand-held fire extinguishers be evacuated, refilled and re-pressurinzed at least once a year, although they will go longer than that in ordinary use.
There's no legal requirement that a private sidecar driver carry one but it's probably not a bad idea, especially if you travel on the road a lot.
I guess that carrying a fire extinguisher might not be a bad idea. If you do so, it needs to be in an area where you could readily access it should the bike catch fire. Unfortunately, if it's out in the open, it's very likely to be stolen. Sorry to say that, but I've found that anything that isn't locked, welded on, riveted or bolted tight can and will be taken by the criminals among us.
In many years of riding, the only motorcycles I've seen burn were during refueling. The owner let fuel drip onto a hot motor. That's probably the most likely scenario. Proper care during refueling will go a long way towards making sure that you never have a fire.
When employees are present in a work area, the General Safety Orders, state and federal, require that hand-held fire extinguishers be evacuated, refilled and re-pressurinzed at least once a year, although they will go longer than that in ordinary use.
There's no legal requirement that a private sidecar driver carry one but it's probably not a bad idea, especially if you travel on the road a lot.
Quote from maquette on January 4, 2009, 4:35 pmHoward,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Thanks Mike!
Howard,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Thanks Mike!
Quote from gnm109 on January 4, 2009, 7:17 pmOriginally written by maquette on 1/4/2009 1:35 PM
Howard,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Sorry, the link won't work. I don't believe that photobucket pictures will open directly into this site.
Originally written by maquette on 1/4/2009 1:35 PM
Howard,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Sorry, the link won't work. I don't believe that photobucket pictures will open directly into this site.
Quote from SidecarMike on January 4, 2009, 7:52 pmOriginally written by gnm109 on 1/4/2009 5:17 PM
Originally written by maquette on 1/4/2009 1:35 PM
Howard,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Sorry, the link won't work. I don't believe that photobucket pictures will open directly into this site.
They will, but you have to choose the HTML Code instead of the IMG code
I don't think my fire extinguisher would help that one.
Originally written by gnm109 on 1/4/2009 5:17 PM
Originally written by maquette on 1/4/2009 1:35 PM
Howard,
Here's my friend's BMW. He didn't have a fire extinguisher, but he did have a camera. :>)
Tom
Sorry, the link won't work. I don't believe that photobucket pictures will open directly into this site.
They will, but you have to choose the HTML Code instead of the IMG code
I don't think my fire extinguisher would help that one.
Quote from Hack__n on January 5, 2009, 5:49 pmDoesn't look like even a 5 pounder would have slowed that one down.
More better to have good insurance and stay back out of harms way if possible.
Lonnie
Doesn't look like even a 5 pounder would have slowed that one down.
More better to have good insurance and stay back out of harms way if possible.
Lonnie
Quote from Guest on January 6, 2009, 3:03 amI have never seen a sidecar fire I would want to play fireman with, but thankfully all I have seen have been in pics only, so far. Here is one of the more dramatic ones I've seen pictures of. Too bad, as it was a nice looking rig before the fire.
I have never seen a sidecar fire I would want to play fireman with, but thankfully all I have seen have been in pics only, so far. Here is one of the more dramatic ones I've seen pictures of. Too bad, as it was a nice looking rig before the fire.
Quote from gnm109 on January 6, 2009, 3:50 pmI do recall another bike fire now that I've thought for a while. I was at a so-called "Field Meet" in llinois many years ago. They were having a slow race and one of the bikes, a late 1940's 500cc Matchless single, stalled. The owner was tickling the amal carburetor to get the fuel level up and the gas was apparently overflowing from the bowl as was common on old British bikes.
In kicking it to get it starting again, it snorted back through the carburetor and caught fire. We were essentially out in the woods and, of course, no one had a fire extinguisher.
The bike fell over and was totally consumed. The fire got so hot, it melted the crankcase and the flywheels actually fell down through the frame. When the fire burned out, there was literally nothing left but a charred mess.
Fortunately with modern bikes, especially those with fuel injection, that sort of thing is much less likely. It sure made a great show, however.
I do recall another bike fire now that I've thought for a while. I was at a so-called "Field Meet" in llinois many years ago. They were having a slow race and one of the bikes, a late 1940's 500cc Matchless single, stalled. The owner was tickling the amal carburetor to get the fuel level up and the gas was apparently overflowing from the bowl as was common on old British bikes.
In kicking it to get it starting again, it snorted back through the carburetor and caught fire. We were essentially out in the woods and, of course, no one had a fire extinguisher.
The bike fell over and was totally consumed. The fire got so hot, it melted the crankcase and the flywheels actually fell down through the frame. When the fire burned out, there was literally nothing left but a charred mess.
Fortunately with modern bikes, especially those with fuel injection, that sort of thing is much less likely. It sure made a great show, however.
Quote from Peter Pan on January 6, 2009, 6:03 pmPowder fire estinguishers damage the electric system and paint.
so in my shop I have as main estinguisher CO2 plus 2 minor powder estinguishers.
In the trunk of the rig the powder poored twice all over and caused rust.
I'll look for a handy outside holder when I'll repair my boat.The only ocasion I needed one on a vehicle was on my 1960 Willies when a back blow lightened the carb (1. day on the street after a 1 year rebuild => next day I adapted a modern Chevrolet carb).
The poor man who wanted to help me with his powder estinguisher got a bad grunt and nearly a blow from me and I estinguished it with a natural wool blanket.As a former Saint John's accident helper I see the need for good preparation always as a good nerve calmer!
Beeing prepared for the worst and hoping for the best is way better then staying beside observing and haveing nothing with what to help.And thanks God the day you need and have it on hand in deed!
Best regards
Sven
Powder fire estinguishers damage the electric system and paint.
so in my shop I have as main estinguisher CO2 plus 2 minor powder estinguishers.
In the trunk of the rig the powder poored twice all over and caused rust.
I'll look for a handy outside holder when I'll repair my boat.
The only ocasion I needed one on a vehicle was on my 1960 Willies when a back blow lightened the carb (1. day on the street after a 1 year rebuild => next day I adapted a modern Chevrolet carb).
The poor man who wanted to help me with his powder estinguisher got a bad grunt and nearly a blow from me and I estinguished it with a natural wool blanket.
As a former Saint John's accident helper I see the need for good preparation always as a good nerve calmer!
Beeing prepared for the worst and hoping for the best is way better then staying beside observing and haveing nothing with what to help.
And thanks God the day you need and have it on hand in deed!
Best regards
Sven
Quote from gnm109 on January 6, 2009, 7:33 pmI remembered another fire that my father and I had with his 1965 Ford. We were on a trip and were on the freeway north of Los Angeles. He had the car serviced the previous week with an oil change and a transmission flush.
Apparently the transmission was overfilled with oil since the engine caught fire on the right side near the transmission filler tube. When I managed to get the hood up, I could see that it was burning rather slowly as it was due to a couple of quarts of ATF havnig been blown out on the manifold on the passenger side.
We had no fire extinguisher but fortunately he was a real estate broker and always carried a shovel for putting up signs. I grabbed the shovel out of the trunk and after about five quick tosses of sand and dirt from the side of the road, the fire was out.
There was no permanent damage as it missed the wiring and I got it out quickly. If it had been gasoline rather than ATF, we would have lost the car.
We limped in to the next town and found a self--service car wash and after a few blasts all was well. After losing the excess oil, the transmission was still working OK, too. Another close one.
I also once saw a Harley Knucklehead burn up at a Shell Gas station in Chicago. The owner let 100 octane fuel drip onto the hot engine when he was refueling. It was a total loss. As I said, I think that would be the most common way that a bike could burn.
When I was a representative for an insurance company, I was frequently on the road in California. I saw several Recreational vehicles burn on the road. Apparently they have an issue with the wiring being strung through the metal framework so short circuits can occur when the wires fray. These can and do lead to fires that can't even be put out since they are inside of the frame.
In any case, a fire extinguisher is always a good idea since it will at least give you a chance.
I remembered another fire that my father and I had with his 1965 Ford. We were on a trip and were on the freeway north of Los Angeles. He had the car serviced the previous week with an oil change and a transmission flush.
Apparently the transmission was overfilled with oil since the engine caught fire on the right side near the transmission filler tube. When I managed to get the hood up, I could see that it was burning rather slowly as it was due to a couple of quarts of ATF havnig been blown out on the manifold on the passenger side.
We had no fire extinguisher but fortunately he was a real estate broker and always carried a shovel for putting up signs. I grabbed the shovel out of the trunk and after about five quick tosses of sand and dirt from the side of the road, the fire was out.
There was no permanent damage as it missed the wiring and I got it out quickly. If it had been gasoline rather than ATF, we would have lost the car.
We limped in to the next town and found a self--service car wash and after a few blasts all was well. After losing the excess oil, the transmission was still working OK, too. Another close one.
I also once saw a Harley Knucklehead burn up at a Shell Gas station in Chicago. The owner let 100 octane fuel drip onto the hot engine when he was refueling. It was a total loss. As I said, I think that would be the most common way that a bike could burn.
When I was a representative for an insurance company, I was frequently on the road in California. I saw several Recreational vehicles burn on the road. Apparently they have an issue with the wiring being strung through the metal framework so short circuits can occur when the wires fray. These can and do lead to fires that can't even be put out since they are inside of the frame.
In any case, a fire extinguisher is always a good idea since it will at least give you a chance.
Quote from SidecarMike on January 6, 2009, 7:59 pmOriginally written by gnm109 on 1/6/2009 5:33 PM
When I was a representative for an insurance company, I was frequently on the road in California. I saw several Recreational vehicles burn on the road. Apparently they have an issue with the wiring being strung through the metal framework so short circuits can occur when the wires fray. These can and do lead to fires that can't even be put out since they are inside of the frame.
In any case, a fire extinguisher is always a good idea since it will at least give you a chance.
I worked for a time at a Winnebago Dealer. We frequently saw fires caused by idiot owners leaving a propane refrigerator running or trying to cook breakfast while driving down the highway. :0)
Originally written by gnm109 on 1/6/2009 5:33 PM
When I was a representative for an insurance company, I was frequently on the road in California. I saw several Recreational vehicles burn on the road. Apparently they have an issue with the wiring being strung through the metal framework so short circuits can occur when the wires fray. These can and do lead to fires that can't even be put out since they are inside of the frame.
In any case, a fire extinguisher is always a good idea since it will at least give you a chance.
I worked for a time at a Winnebago Dealer. We frequently saw fires caused by idiot owners leaving a propane refrigerator running or trying to cook breakfast while driving down the highway. :0)