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Building a Harley softail rig

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Took the bike for about a 40 mile urban run with some highway and I feel hat I may have a little too much lean when I looked at the front tire and at where the sand is worn off and shows the actual footprint strip. It was definitely about 1/4" more to the left so when I got home I took some of the lean out and tomorrow I will take the bike to a job and see what has happened I can still see a little lean just to look at the bike. I use the back disc as my datum point for all my alignment measurements. I am not really measuring simply tweaking and seeing what happens. When I get it right I will measure it again very accurately and make notes as well as take some measurements to various different points so I can make field adjustments if necessary with a tape measure It does seem like the stationary turns are a bit easier and not very different left or right. Of course the bigger the amount the higher effort is required.

I am fortunate in that I have a pretty good infrastructure and experience base even tho I am a newby Side Carist with the hope that I may make other newbies even some old hands life a little easier when dealing with problems also to try to pry some knowledge from the herd experience. I am sure my problems are not unique for anybody who cannot employ Professional Sidecar Meisters so they do not have to deal with them, themselves or have to stretch funds to enjoy the sport. I have always been a one bike rider and have never had the where withall to support a stable of machines. That is why my machines are always Road Warriors that can go to the end of the road and come back on their own wheels     Chuck

we have been busy working on the tig and now have made and installed a power camber to the sidecar suspension that gives about an 8 to 1 camber range and with a little sophistication will end up with 2 ranges HI&LO with about a 33% o/lap in the middle I may make the O/lap less but we will see , for now i am going to ride it for a while..

I discovered a set of heritage Softail trees with Zero rake so we put them in and found that the Dual disc wheel went in but only one caliper matched the disc. i looked online and found the solution , "lots of money"  So we went to work and did a pile of pondering developing a working solution because i love the dual disc black spoke mag front 16"wheel. Well eventually I found a solution and its perfecto.

Getting to the S&S carb bown was a pain so I moved the 

Quote from Neville L Te Brugge on March 15, 2021, 3:03 am

...discovered a set of heritage Softail trees with Zero rake so we put them in and found that the Dual disc wheel went in but only one caliper matched the disc. i looked online and found the solution , "lots of money"  So we went to work and did a pile of pondering developing a working solution because i love the dual disc black spoke mag front 16"wheel. Well eventually I found a solution and its perfecto.

Getting to the S&S carb bown was a pain so I moved the 

Hi Neville:  Please explain a little more re: the triple tree and the mis-matching brake parts.  Did you use remount the original forks?  Or use another set of forks that come with the triple tree?   And what about that carb?

Lee / Summer Grove, Louisiana: Ural cT, CJ750, Burgman/Texas Ranger, Zuma 50F, MB5, TW200, CRF250L, GTV300

Hi Been busy

The Softail heritage trees are 1/2" narrower than the glide trees and so the left side caliper will line up with the disc but the right side does not. The disc will just only clear the lower slider by about 0.62" however the caliper and the caliper mount conflict unless you get the lots of money solution. So that is what I am talking about. I got that worked out and the brakes are just fine running the double disc front wheel. They make a single performance machine front look like nothing when I go to my front anchors

We solved the problem and are running double dark now  the front tire is very snug under the fatboy fender but it all clears likewise the back wheel. Now we are still running the 1 1/2 drive belt and with nice clearance. the disc went right into the caliper and the tire went up in the fender with about 3/8" of stretch to the right. Now we are talking tight like I moved the tail light wired to the left side because the hold clips were just touching the side wall at times ,but it is in there and no problems now. With the 66 tooth pulley the bike runs like a long legged camel on the Interstate and the work on the motor makes it pull like a mule on steroids.

We also engineered up a camber trim system and can now dial the lean right in to the particular hiway and also have a second range that allows me to deal with excess negative camber if I anticipate the need. Right now I can accommodate 7 degs of positive camber anda few degs of negative  camber as well. Its controlled by a switch on my dash.

I got caught in a Southern  Gulley washer on the interstate day before yesterday and let me tell you there were cars off the road in the ditch but my scooter ran like it was on rails and my brakes etc were amazing. I did have my 4 way flasher quit on me. 

I have been looking at creating a tow bar for the bike and one that will fit right under the tub when not being used. This will allow me to extend my range as my wife is disabled and cannot really go over about 4 hrs max in a day. Me I ride sunup to sunset and longer if need be.

I seem to get about 140 miles before I need to go to reserve Is this about right??? Thats about 35 mpg.

Right now everything on the bike is prototype and is subject to change till it proves itself equal to what I want out of my ride.

I was hoping to learn from the long term wise heads but it seems that they are not very forthcoming of their experiences and do not share knowledge with the newbys who are struggling to get good rigs up without going thru a lot of trial and error (very costly). I am fortunate in that I have the resources and ability to take care of myself ,but there are very very few folks that fortunate

                                                Later Chuck

Well I am well into road testing and this is what I have found.

1 The camber trim does help and the bike steering is pretty neutral provided you have enough toe in to start with

2 I need to trim the long legged camel's legs a bit. It is super on the Hi way at 60-70 mph but not so smooth in heavy city traffic or urban roads with a lot of corners. Now changing ratios using final drive belts is a pain as you have to pull the entire left side off the motor and the  options are limited to very few choices so I am going to put a chain drive in and use sprockets. the new chains running on aluminium sprockets just about last forever and that variety of back sprockets is unlimited. Not cheap but it will achieve the end I require.  

3 I believe that Moving the lead to the most advantageous point is really the  only major step I still need to take after #2 to have a very nice rig.

                                                                                                 Later  Chuck

 

If you want to shorten the gearing the easiest way, change to a smaller compensator sprocket.  I have a 23 that I took out to install a 22 from Baker Drivetrain.  The 23 I have was made form a shovel head sprocket, with a center portion from an evo sprocket.

Will drop right into yours, let me know if you are interested.

Quote from Neville L Te Brugge on March 27, 2021, 2:53 pm

I was hoping to learn from the long term wise heads but it seems that they are not very forthcoming of their experiences and do not share knowledge with the newbys who are struggling to get good rigs up without going thru a lot of trial and error 

                                                Later Chuck

I find just the opposite.  The folks here are more than eager to offer guidance, assistance, and even parts to help others maintain their sidecars.  However, it appears to me you are not only putting together a hack rig, but customize a bike as you go.  I live by the rule, "never change something until you get the existing problem resolved."  Seems you have multiple project going on at the same time.  I'm not being critical, You are coming up with some state-of-the-art solutions for your build, maybe surpassing the abilities of some of the "long term wise heads?"  Have you considered applying for patients for camber trim you developed?

I am a big fan of H-D motorcycle (which is not a popular acknowledgement of character, but I think they make a Great machine).  Owning many and having the resources and ability to take care of myself and my machines run mostly trouble free.  Haven't had an oil leaker since I rode a '73 Shovel.  I do understand your challenges when mixing parts from one model to another - sometimes things just don't fit and that's when we find how resourceful we can be.  During these times my friends set on their hands and watch.

Keep posting your build.  I find it very interesting.  When you get it finished (which never really happens) you'll have one awesome machine, and the pride that goes with your accomplish. 

Later, Bud... 

smitty901 has reacted to this post.
smitty901

Thanks guys .  I am interested in trading for that sprocket.

Maybe I get my head up my butt a lot because I forget that not many folks have the facilities that I can access or the ability to get things done on the side if I need to. I also live outside the box mostly. I am a perfectionist where function is concerned and will modify anything to get the level of performance that I consider acceptable. I believe beauty is in the function and if it works right then that is what it is supposed to  look like as long as it has a workmanlike appearance. Its like the double disc front brakes. I started out with a bracket to make the right caliper work, then I pondered and pondered until I had the right inspiration  which was to shave the insides of the caliper mount points of the front lowers till the calipers matched the discs on both sides. I had to really split hairs with the wheel spacers to get the wheel dead center. Lots of hand fitting. Now the calipers fit the disc like they were made to that alignment all along. It was just a picky no cost job using hand tools mostly. I have the speedo drive in as well. I had to turn the outside of the drive away to achieve a 0.6" spacer to go in and then chamfer the lower leg inside corner a fat 1/16" to allow for the speedo cable drive bulge. 

Jay did a camber trim for Helge Pederson and I saw it in a pic so I just back engineered it with I think about a $60 1320 lb actuator from EBay. Its controlled with a double pole double throw toggle switch. I made sure that i had my 1 deg lean then fitted the actuator while it was positioned dead center. I do not think the reverse is original but merely a simple hill billie solution to the problem of rolling that heavy sucker backwards. It is operated by a small momentary button on the right handle bar control group and run thru a 30 A relay. It actually does not ever kick a 10A heater it was cheap and works. 

I am beginning to like this rig very much and if I can optimise my low speed turning I will have a very nice rig to ride. I made that Ural saddle into a very comfortable seat and am not even aware of it for 2 hr stretches. I had a 45cu HD at one time and it rides just like the post solo rode on that bike                                                          Later Chuck 

Jay tells me he sets the lead on Ural cars to 10-15% wheelbase so with a 62" w.b. I am at 18% which is not too bad for a rank amateur. I can live with it for now and when I take the rig down for paint I will remodel to 10% lead and I should be a very very happy camper. It is actually force feeding me how to ride sidecar as I am really learning when to apply power. Also to plan my moves ahead and not simply react to a corner etc. Its like you do Judo and it then mostly does what you want it to do.

I believe that mama is also biting her teeth less than at first. When I get the final chain thing done that is the last of big money out and then its mostly picking at cockroaches which will never end. I was given a very nice M Benz for a gift. Its a 1997 202 230S and its pretty impeccable etc except for very bad sunburn. At that price I can afford a really good paintjob and that will be our tow vehicle. Mama likes 4 star camping and really its a lot easier and cheaper than buying and keeping a motorhome.

We love our place here in a secluded little mountain valley so we are perfectly happy at home and amuse ourselves here along the East Coast doing together things or spoiling the decendants rotten,  like paybacks to our kids for their behavior. Revenge is a delicacy best eaten cold. Its simply delicious.      Later chuck

Thinking about reducing the lead. It may be easier to simply extend the car swingarm and move the fender back on the car. Moving the fender back will make entry and egress easier for mama who has a bit of a time with that. I would also put a small rack on the fender for her to use as a seat. I have a very rigid system between the car and the bike so I would not like to disturb that and its quite a lot of work as well. I will also go to a bagger air over shock as well when I do it. That should really be the end of the radical changes and my ride would be very efficient. I put a little more toe in on the car yesterday and when we went out to eat last night I think I may have hit the sweet spot. I do not know exactly how much but I would estimate probably just under 3/4" and the bike is very short W.B. at 62.5" like same Fatboy. Those progressive springs at the front really made the front brake a very go to brake and it pretty much stops straight with little dive when I get on the brake. Now I set up for turns by rolling off using the front brakes and simply getting to the right gear and then doing a gentle controlled roll on and when I trim the camels legs a bit that should become a very smooth as it will be lots more tractible at lower speeds like city riding. Later Chuck

When I get a bright idea I have found from experience that I need to try and discredit the idea and only after a great deal of pondering should I do it, that said.      Moving the car wheel back by extending the swingarm may not be such a good idea as it probably will alter the dynamic behavior of the car when extreme braking is involved with dire consequences,  teeter tottering the bikes back wheel off the ground at worst and reducing traction at best. NO NO!!!!!!!! So back to the drawing board and perish that thought. When I harden the bikes underframe around the CG which is just behind the back motor mount I am also creating a new hard point for the car's front mount which in turn will reduce front wheel load when braking if I simply re attach the car there. With both upper and lower struts at the back I would simply lengthen the struts and pivot them backwards from the bike and they really carry the load at the back. So my Heim joint etc is really just a positioner and one end of the toe in adjustment. In keeping with that thought I also will bring the towing wheel or rocker tandem wheels off the same hard point and to the other side. I am thinking of using 4.80X8 class D wheels with a 900 lb load rating @ 65mph. By incorporating a free rocker tandem I would be using the trailing wheel as a suspension to reduce shock on the front wheel. I would harden the frame by incorporating a piece of 5/16" 1045 cold rolled steel to fit behind the engine mount from tube to tube with threaded holes for the tandem mount bracket bolts. I would just bolt the bracket on under the bike and jack it up to fit the rocker and wheels on the pivot at the bracket. I could then run the front wheel alongside the primary case and and the back wheel on the inside of the rocker putting it behind the clutch bulge. I would have a 3 part system that would go in the car trunk and probably not take 15 mins to install or to remove on the bike.  With the bracket removed I would have the full ground clearance under the bike Now to ponder that solution.  later Chuck

The more I think about it the more I like the little walking beam axle to carry the bike with a car tire on the tub side. I feel it would be an asymetric beam  but I still need to decide if I need to give the advantage forward or to the back wheel. I feel that if I gave the advantage to the front it would help set the suspension up for potholes and reduce the shock load on each tire as well I would use a beam approx 20" tween axles jack it up and put the beam on The car side would only carry its normal weight and using the electric trim I could even level it out side to side. I would still stay with a 3 piece system for easy stowing. I already have 4 ways on the rig so I would just let those leds run off the battery or put in a trailer hookup on the bike. Because my bike has low ground clearance I do not see how to leave the mounting bracket on when riding so that is an unavoidable chore . Then not having to deal with a trailer is also a very big blessing and a good trade off. Not counting my labor its also only about $100 out for wheels/hitch etc. Other materials I either have or will scrounge or trade for KACHING.  Maybe I can find a way to leave the bracket on and have enough ground clearance making it a 2 part deal. I have a width limit the rig has to stay between the car's mirrors so thats the booger. Later Chuck

I have been working on the towing contraption and have made great strides. This is new territory I believe and because I have a heavy rig it has to be strong. My concept is that the bike has to be carried and the side car wheel really will just be doing its normal job and carry the kerb side weight. Keeping in mind that I like things that are lightly stressed when carrying their normal load I started at the wheels. I chose 2  480X8". C class wheels with a combined rating  of 1400 lbs + Then I chose to go with a walking beam tandem as it is a no shock system that yet gives a very smooth ride.  I used existing hard points on the left side of the bike frame to attach s 2"X2" subframe the projected forward tp the front motor mount. I then made a crossmember that bolts to the subframe beam and then bolts to a hard point I added to the sidecar frame. The motorcycle essentially rests on this crossmember. Now the crossmember is so dimensioned that the Tandem and the sidecar wheel are near dammit perfectly aligned with each other. I allowed for correction with shims if it ever became necessary at the side car hard point. i also reinforced the inner tube beam of the side car chassis with a 2"X2X3/16" angle. So I can create hard points later if I decide to move the car backwards to decrease the lead. I also use it to distribute the Vertical loading from the tow bar which is attached to a mount at the front where the crossmember and  and the re-enforced beam come together. The tow bar is just a bolt on. The bikes wheel ride about 5" off the road and because it rocks on the tanden should never ever contact the road unless everything else has gone to hell. Now I had to make a towing trim link to go on the side car so I can raise it up the level the combination out from side to side with a parking attachment point for my electric trim actuator when towing.  This has been a 1 step forward and hopefully only a 7/8 step back at each stage of the way. However I am now in the weld out stage and should have it completed during this coming week. I am also designing a much lighter rig for a very good friend who runs a Antique BMW 500 cc rig with a car. That one, tho much simpler also has its problems but I have learned so much from building my rig that its a piece of cake by comparison. I will probably go with a single Class D wheel on the bike side. I have set a goal of 30 mins to install or remove the towing rig but I believe I can do it in about 15 minutes and then put all the pieces in the car trunk Till its time to go home. I will leave the rig in the trunk of my Mercedes 230 which is our travel car. I do not expect to be rescued but if it happens my wife can just drive the Benz To me and not have to screw with a trailer etc etc. With a 1000lb load the Benz should be happy  

                                                                                           Later Chuck

Well I tested the rig with my wife driving the Benz and me following in my truck. I started out with about a 5" deep pothole and she eased the car thru the hole and the tandem which follows the same track as the left wheels of the car went thru the pothole. I planned that the bike back wheel would be out of gear so that the wheel would act like a 3 rd wheel. well it kissed the road when the back tandem wheel was at the deepest point with the rear suspension only moving very slightly just like I  had planned I am not worried about the front wheel as the towbar is only 50" long and there is no way you can get that wheel on the ground. We went for a little drive and the rig just followed the car. Becky says that the only time she felt the rig was braking she could feel the extra weight. Everything tucks right up in the trunk. So I call this venture a 100% success. This is made for hiway towing on reasonable roads tho it will traverse some pretty bad road if you go slow. That walking beam makes the bike just float along when traversing a heavily trucked hiway. I thought of slaving the bikes lights to the tow car but believe that I will just make a towing light board that can go on the back as part of the tow rig.

Now I have the best of both worlds I can take my bike along when Mama travels with me and not have to worry about getting my trailer ripped off at the other end.  A very real concern. I also do not need another special trailer

                                                                         Later Chuck

CCjon has reacted to this post.
CCjon

Chuck, your description sounds like it worked perfect. Any photos available?

 

It really beat my best hopes. Like I said I am a digital dumbass and when one of my grand kids visits I will have them publish a lot of photos. The best part is that to solve the design problems I had to work on associated problems like jacking for example. That is a classic problem and the way I solved that was to create  a jacking point on the car and the front of the Mcycle under the left side floor board then also a add on that goes to the swingarm to lift the rear wheel. I then use a Mercedes side jack that fits the points to jack whatever wheel I need up. I tie the front brake with a cord and put the rear wheel in gear and engage the reverse drive so nothing can move when I am jacking. If I need to go very high like when putting wheels on the tandem or taking them off I just put a piece of 2X4 under the jack to get the extra height. My bike is now very custom built and I only have to replace the belt final with a chain and also the alternator/charging system, also to replace the Ural wheel with a HD black spoke mag/disc brake/car tire, to pretty much have the bike completely done except for final paint after it proves itself this summer. If I still find the steering objectionable at that time I will take the lead down to 10% with the option of going back to 15% Its 18% right now

To look at the bike it just looks like a slightly different Fat Boy but if you know what you are looking at you will see that this is very definitely a Horse of a different color with a lot of radical points to it. This thing is built to go to the moon, if there was a road there, and come back under its own power. Its a Road Warrior, it functions like one and rides like a comfortable armchair whilst being as bullet proof as a HD Evo can be made

later Chuck

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