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2004 Sportster -
Quote from Guest on November 20, 2003, 7:32 pmI've been told by a dealer that to install a car on a new Sportster it will be necessary to fabricate a sub-frame. Can anyone explain this to me?
thanks
Jim in lonely Newark, DE
I've been told by a dealer that to install a car on a new Sportster it will be necessary to fabricate a sub-frame. Can anyone explain this to me?
thanks
Jim in lonely Newark, DE
Quote from SidecarMike on November 20, 2003, 7:42 pmMany bikes being built either don't have a solid enough frame, or just don't have a good mounting point. I have three separate subframes on my Valkyrie. Many of the Sportsters need lower mounting points added. Check with Jay at Dauntless Motors or Hack'n at Northwest, they can explain your specific application better than I can.
Many bikes being built either don't have a solid enough frame, or just don't have a good mounting point. I have three separate subframes on my Valkyrie. Many of the Sportsters need lower mounting points added. Check with Jay at Dauntless Motors or Hack'n at Northwest, they can explain your specific application better than I can.
Quote from claude #3563 on November 21, 2003, 5:29 amI may be wrong in saying this because I am not sure how differnt, if any , the 2004 Sportster is for years past...but...I have installed hacks on sportsters without usinga subfeame with good results. The problem,if we want to call it that, is that the exhaust placement makes the lower mounts a challenge. If this is the reason for the subframe it does make semse as it would ease installation. Structurally, at least on the older models, I do not see a problem with attaching a hack to the motorcycle frame itself.
I concur with Mike though...Jay would bea good one to ask about this as would Lonnie (hack'n). Maybe others will post here.
I may be wrong in saying this because I am not sure how differnt, if any , the 2004 Sportster is for years past...but...I have installed hacks on sportsters without usinga subfeame with good results. The problem,if we want to call it that, is that the exhaust placement makes the lower mounts a challenge. If this is the reason for the subframe it does make semse as it would ease installation. Structurally, at least on the older models, I do not see a problem with attaching a hack to the motorcycle frame itself.
I concur with Mike though...Jay would bea good one to ask about this as would Lonnie (hack'n). Maybe others will post here.
Quote from FENDER2YOU on November 21, 2003, 10:05 amI agree that you may not need a subframe, i plan to install a sidecar on my 2003 sportster in a week or two here, and i've heard nothing about having to use a subframe.
I agree that you may not need a subframe, i plan to install a sidecar on my 2003 sportster in a week or two here, and i've heard nothing about having to use a subframe.
Quote from Hack__n on November 21, 2003, 2:22 pmJim,
Your need for a subframe on the Sporty might be related to the sidecar you wish to install. With some long-framed hacks, being attached to short framed bikes like the Sportster, the addition of a lower rear sub-frame, or bracket, will allow the lower sidecar mounts to be placed farther apart which will make a more rigid setup. Aside from that we've never used a full sub-frame on any year XL.
Jim,
Your need for a subframe on the Sporty might be related to the sidecar you wish to install. With some long-framed hacks, being attached to short framed bikes like the Sportster, the addition of a lower rear sub-frame, or bracket, will allow the lower sidecar mounts to be placed farther apart which will make a more rigid setup. Aside from that we've never used a full sub-frame on any year XL.
Quote from FENDER2YOU on November 21, 2003, 5:38 pmHack has a point what type of sidecar are you planing on putting on your sportster?
Hack has a point what type of sidecar are you planing on putting on your sportster?
Quote from Guest on November 21, 2003, 6:06 pmThe dealer I contacted wants to sell me a 562 for full retail and then charge me $1,000 to install it.
I'm don't think we're going to go with a 562 or this dealer...., we're leaning real heavy toward a Spyder.
Jim
The dealer I contacted wants to sell me a 562 for full retail and then charge me $1,000 to install it.
I'm don't think we're going to go with a 562 or this dealer...., we're leaning real heavy toward a Spyder.
Jim
Quote from Hack__n on November 22, 2003, 1:05 pmJim,
Your dealer's labor must be worth about $150. per hour from the sound of it. Even with the Custom models with forward controls a 562 isn't a hard installation. The Spyder (great sidecar) installation is a lot more labor intensive since they need more assembly and a little planning for the upper strut locations and probably a steering damper added. Still, a thousand bucks for a bare installation would be pricey without at least one of a few bells and whistles, like paint matching, brakes, tilt, fuel cell, etc.
But then again, maybe some of us don't charge enough here on the Left coast.
Jim,
Your dealer's labor must be worth about $150. per hour from the sound of it. Even with the Custom models with forward controls a 562 isn't a hard installation. The Spyder (great sidecar) installation is a lot more labor intensive since they need more assembly and a little planning for the upper strut locations and probably a steering damper added. Still, a thousand bucks for a bare installation would be pricey without at least one of a few bells and whistles, like paint matching, brakes, tilt, fuel cell, etc.
But then again, maybe some of us don't charge enough here on the Left coast.
Quote from claude #3563 on November 22, 2003, 7:19 pmHack'n wrote:
>>But then again, maybe some of us don't charge enough here on the Left coast.<<Lonnie..Please don't say that....lol. Hey I am in Pa. and installing a Velorex is just as easyhere as anywhere else.
Jim...I have to ask..who is the dealer? If he is gonna charge that for installing a Velorex sidecar on a Sportster he should not mind saying it here. Free enterprise and all that stuff right?
Wow..
Claude
Hack'n wrote:
>>But then again, maybe some of us don't charge enough here on the Left coast.<<
Lonnie..Please don't say that....lol. Hey I am in Pa. and installing a Velorex is just as easyhere as anywhere else.
Jim...I have to ask..who is the dealer? If he is gonna charge that for installing a Velorex sidecar on a Sportster he should not mind saying it here. Free enterprise and all that stuff right?
Wow..
Claude
Quote from Chuck on November 23, 2003, 5:49 pmThe HD dealer that installed my California III with the trim adjustment to my 01 RoadGlide,charged me $450. to install it complete. By chance would this include a subframe?. Myself I think I would go for the Spyder sidecar the looks alone should set off the Sporty from the rest.
The HD dealer that installed my California III with the trim adjustment to my 01 RoadGlide,charged me $450. to install it complete. By chance would this include a subframe?. Myself I think I would go for the Spyder sidecar the looks alone should set off the Sporty from the rest.
Quote from Guest on November 23, 2003, 5:50 pmI don't want to bad mouth the dealer, maybe he knows something I don't, well, that has to be a given as I don't know Jack, especially about a hack. anyway, when I wrote back and said that $1000 seems a pretty stiff for a days work he replied:
"I can understand how you might think $1000 is high for a day's work. I
agree with you; however, the proper installation of a sidecar on a
Sporty takes more than a day and involves fabrication of a subframe to
ensure proper handling and safety. Yes, we could bolt up the sidecar in
less than a day using standard included brackets, but you wouldn't be
happy with the result, nor would you be safe. As the installer, we are
subject to liability for the safety of anything we send out of the shop
and we are genuinely concerned about your safety as well; therefore, we
are very particular to fabricate a subframe that provides superior
handling and durability. This is where the $1000 comes in, and believe
me represents more than a days work, plus the materials we provide in
that cost. As an aside, we had an individual come to us three weekends
ago with a Sporty sidecar rig that was done for him by the local Harley
dealer. His complaint was that there was too much flex in the rig and
the vehicle wandered going down the road. That it did, and more. It
appears that we will be fixing his problem by constructing a subframe.
We have seen this scenario time and again.Thanks for getting back to us and for expressing your questions
regarding cost. At least if we know what your objection is, we can
address it and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings due to lack of
information.Best regards,"
If you'd like his name I'd be happy to provide it in private, mail me at jcmatkins at rcn dot com.
Jim
I don't want to bad mouth the dealer, maybe he knows something I don't, well, that has to be a given as I don't know Jack, especially about a hack. anyway, when I wrote back and said that $1000 seems a pretty stiff for a days work he replied:
"I can understand how you might think $1000 is high for a day's work. I
agree with you; however, the proper installation of a sidecar on a
Sporty takes more than a day and involves fabrication of a subframe to
ensure proper handling and safety. Yes, we could bolt up the sidecar in
less than a day using standard included brackets, but you wouldn't be
happy with the result, nor would you be safe. As the installer, we are
subject to liability for the safety of anything we send out of the shop
and we are genuinely concerned about your safety as well; therefore, we
are very particular to fabricate a subframe that provides superior
handling and durability. This is where the $1000 comes in, and believe
me represents more than a days work, plus the materials we provide in
that cost. As an aside, we had an individual come to us three weekends
ago with a Sporty sidecar rig that was done for him by the local Harley
dealer. His complaint was that there was too much flex in the rig and
the vehicle wandered going down the road. That it did, and more. It
appears that we will be fixing his problem by constructing a subframe.
We have seen this scenario time and again.
Thanks for getting back to us and for expressing your questions
regarding cost. At least if we know what your objection is, we can
address it and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings due to lack of
information.
Best regards,"
If you'd like his name I'd be happy to provide it in private, mail me at jcmatkins at rcn dot com.
Jim
Quote from Guest on November 24, 2003, 12:09 pmHey Jim;
No one, and I do mean no one, has immunity from safety and handling issues....they're universal.
But there are two 'rights' at juxtaposition here; 1) the installer's right to charge whatever he wishes to charge, and 2) your right to go somewhere else.
David Hannigan (of Hannigan Sidecars) does a superior job of installing sidecars, and oftentimes must fabricate sub-frame assemblies in order to do so. He charges $450 dollars per. His price seems much more in line with what appears to be an industry standard, and he takes no short-cuts in the interest of safety and handling, as indeed, he shouldn't.
In all of motorcycling, pricing gets to me quicker than any other element; and I cherish my right to go elsewhere, or to do it myself, or to farm it out as I wish. There's very little worse than the feeling that comes with driving off the dealer's lot with the absolute iron-clad conviction you've been 'had'. Sometimes, I'd simply rather do without than give myself over to someone who thinks me fool enough to go for their product, or prices, or whatever (not saying any of that is the case here, just pointing out the common-ness of that kind of thing).
Anyhow, have a good one and we'll catch you later!
Sahagan
Hey Jim;
No one, and I do mean no one, has immunity from safety and handling issues....they're universal.
But there are two 'rights' at juxtaposition here; 1) the installer's right to charge whatever he wishes to charge, and 2) your right to go somewhere else.
David Hannigan (of Hannigan Sidecars) does a superior job of installing sidecars, and oftentimes must fabricate sub-frame assemblies in order to do so. He charges $450 dollars per. His price seems much more in line with what appears to be an industry standard, and he takes no short-cuts in the interest of safety and handling, as indeed, he shouldn't.
In all of motorcycling, pricing gets to me quicker than any other element; and I cherish my right to go elsewhere, or to do it myself, or to farm it out as I wish. There's very little worse than the feeling that comes with driving off the dealer's lot with the absolute iron-clad conviction you've been 'had'. Sometimes, I'd simply rather do without than give myself over to someone who thinks me fool enough to go for their product, or prices, or whatever (not saying any of that is the case here, just pointing out the common-ness of that kind of thing).
Anyhow, have a good one and we'll catch you later!
Sahagan
Quote from Guest on August 18, 2011, 1:00 amI installed a hack that subfeame Sportster without good results. The problem, if you want to call it, the exhaust pipe layout, making the lower hills a challenge. If this is the reason for the sub-frame, it feels as if it would help with the installation.
I installed a hack that subfeame Sportster without good results. The problem, if you want to call it, the exhaust pipe layout, making the lower hills a challenge. If this is the reason for the sub-frame, it feels as if it would help with the installation.
Quote from wvsporty on November 25, 2011, 12:55 pmHey just cause I can I installed my own used hack on my 01 SportsterI know the frames are a little different but mine seems to be working out just fine. 3 months riding and plenty of miles and air time on the sidecar and no changes in the handling .
Hey just cause I can I installed my own used hack on my 01 SportsterI know the frames are a little different but mine seems to be working out just fine. 3 months riding and plenty of miles and air time on the sidecar and no changes in the handling .
Quote from jaydmc on November 28, 2011, 11:02 amSub frames on sportsters allow the 4 mounting points to be spread further apart then you would be able to with out a sub frame. We make sub frames for both 1986-2003 solid engine mount and a different sub frame for 2003 onward rubber mount engine. With the sub frame the mounts will be much better located then you could do with just clamps and as poor quality or improperly used clamps tend to slip, you may find that with out a sub frame the sidecar will not hold an alignment.
We will sell just the mounts or they do come with our sidecars. The Kenna sidecar at only $3395 is the least expensive sidecar we have. The M72C is the most popular. As this will include bike specific mounts as well as instructions many people install their own sidecars. We also offer a disk brake option on our sidecars which will allow you to have a brake. We feel a brake is a good saftey item to have. We also have triple tree's to lower the steering effort on the sportster and while this is a sidecar site, I should have we make a trike kit for them as well.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Sub frames on sportsters allow the 4 mounting points to be spread further apart then you would be able to with out a sub frame. We make sub frames for both 1986-2003 solid engine mount and a different sub frame for 2003 onward rubber mount engine. With the sub frame the mounts will be much better located then you could do with just clamps and as poor quality or improperly used clamps tend to slip, you may find that with out a sub frame the sidecar will not hold an alignment.
We will sell just the mounts or they do come with our sidecars. The Kenna sidecar at only $3395 is the least expensive sidecar we have. The M72C is the most popular. As this will include bike specific mounts as well as instructions many people install their own sidecars. We also offer a disk brake option on our sidecars which will allow you to have a brake. We feel a brake is a good saftey item to have. We also have triple tree's to lower the steering effort on the sportster and while this is a sidecar site, I should have we make a trike kit for them as well.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Quote from cmaridersa on December 1, 2011, 3:22 pm- 11/21/2003 5:06 PM
The dealer I contacted wants to sell me a 562 for full retail and then charge me $1,000 to install it.
I'm don't think we're going to go with a 562 or this dealer...., we're leaning real heavy toward a Spyder.
Jim
Since you're interested in a Spyder sidecar, why not call Motorvation and ask them what they recommend since they make the sidecar?
http://www.motorvation.com/883mnts1.htm
Motorvation Engineering Sidecars and Trailers
941 Fourth Ave.
Sibley IA 51249
712.754.3664 800.305.3664Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars has a subframe for the sportster.
He also makes a sidecar called the "Ranger" that looks very good on the Sportster and may be more "cost effective" than the Spyder.Send email regarding pricing to: sales@TexasSidecars.com
Send email regarding technical questions to: info@TexasSidecars.com
Regular mail to: 11672 S. Hwy 78, Leonard, TX, 75452
Call us at: 903-640-2149.
Sales & Showroom Hours:
9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Tuesday - Friday
and Saturdays by appointment.I would attach pics, but of course I can't find them anywhere.
If you are interested in a 562, I will have a used one available within the next month or so. I am cleaning out my stuff/downsizing a bit . . . well a LOT.
- 11/21/2003 5:06 PM
The dealer I contacted wants to sell me a 562 for full retail and then charge me $1,000 to install it.
I'm don't think we're going to go with a 562 or this dealer...., we're leaning real heavy toward a Spyder.
Jim
Since you're interested in a Spyder sidecar, why not call Motorvation and ask them what they recommend since they make the sidecar?
http://www.motorvation.com/883mnts1.htm
Motorvation Engineering Sidecars and Trailers
941 Fourth Ave.
Sibley IA 51249
712.754.3664 800.305.3664
Bob Darden of Texas Sidecars has a subframe for the sportster.
He also makes a sidecar called the "Ranger" that looks very good on the Sportster and may be more "cost effective" than the Spyder.
Send email regarding pricing to: sales@TexasSidecars.com
Send email regarding technical questions to: info@TexasSidecars.com
Regular mail to: 11672 S. Hwy 78, Leonard, TX, 75452
Call us at: 903-640-2149.
Sales & Showroom Hours:
9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Tuesday - Friday
and Saturdays by appointment.
I would attach pics, but of course I can't find them anywhere.
If you are interested in a 562, I will have a used one available within the next month or so. I am cleaning out my stuff/downsizing a bit . . . well a LOT.