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15 mph over, $3500 in Va.
Quote from Guest on June 29, 2007, 2:59 pmWhat the heck are they thinking about in Virginia, 15 over and you can get a $3500 ticket but they take it easy on out of staters,,,it only $2100.
Talk to guys and gals, how did this happen, they make no bones about there purpose in doing this,,,,revenue.
What the heck are they thinking about in Virginia, 15 over and you can get a $3500 ticket but they take it easy on out of staters,,,it only $2100.
Talk to guys and gals, how did this happen, they make no bones about there purpose in doing this,,,,revenue.
Quote from SidecarMike on June 29, 2007, 3:16 pmMost tickets serve the dual purpose of gathering revenue and enforcing the laws, but if it was really just a revenue thing they'd hit out of staters harder, as we're not as likely to come back to fight it in court.
Originally written by Shadow1100T on 6/29/2007 12:59 PM
What the heck are they thinking about in Virginia, 15 over and you can get a $3500 ticket but they take it easy on out of staters,,,it only $2100.
Talk to guys and gals, how did this happen, they make no bones about there purpose in doing this,,,,revenue.
Most tickets serve the dual purpose of gathering revenue and enforcing the laws, but if it was really just a revenue thing they'd hit out of staters harder, as we're not as likely to come back to fight it in court.
Originally written by Shadow1100T on 6/29/2007 12:59 PM
What the heck are they thinking about in Virginia, 15 over and you can get a $3500 ticket but they take it easy on out of staters,,,it only $2100.
Talk to guys and gals, how did this happen, they make no bones about there purpose in doing this,,,,revenue.
Quote from gnm109 on June 29, 2007, 6:37 pmGood! Yet another reason for never, ever going there.
The excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue. There are dozens of cases in the Supreme Court area where excessive fines have been challenged. If a fine is designed to promote good behavior and safety, that's one thing. When it gets so excessive that it's clear that the sole purpose of the fine would be to collect money from unsuspecting drivers, then that's quite another.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
In any case, that settles it. no trips to VA for me!
Good! Yet another reason for never, ever going there.
The excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue. There are dozens of cases in the Supreme Court area where excessive fines have been challenged. If a fine is designed to promote good behavior and safety, that's one thing. When it gets so excessive that it's clear that the sole purpose of the fine would be to collect money from unsuspecting drivers, then that's quite another.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
In any case, that settles it. no trips to VA for me!
Quote from Guest on June 30, 2007, 5:00 amDid you read this fine information on the back of a ticket or just hear it from someone else? The reason I ask, and I don't live or drive in there, is that they are on a point system in VA. All fines are listed on the actual ticket, and are also tied to points in your driving record. They also require a pre-pay be done within 15 days of the ticket, I believe, so that is one heafty fine for anyone, resident or not. You only have 10 days to fight the thing if you lost in court as well.
I am wondering why no outcry over the ticket cost, so it makes me wonder about the source of the actual ticket cost information. I'd have a hard time believing that the fines are that high over speeding in the first place, but one never knows. I laugh at Texas fines, as the highest fine is for no insurance, but that is probably the least cited thing by cops in all of Texas. Ask anyone who has been hit by an uninsured motorist (wife got nailed twice in the past year by such folk). I'm not planning any trips there in Va. in the near future to begin with though. However, I am still wondering or curious about the possible miscommunication in actual fines there. Just seems like more would have been said about it if they were actually that high.
Did you read this fine information on the back of a ticket or just hear it from someone else? The reason I ask, and I don't live or drive in there, is that they are on a point system in VA. All fines are listed on the actual ticket, and are also tied to points in your driving record. They also require a pre-pay be done within 15 days of the ticket, I believe, so that is one heafty fine for anyone, resident or not. You only have 10 days to fight the thing if you lost in court as well.
I am wondering why no outcry over the ticket cost, so it makes me wonder about the source of the actual ticket cost information. I'd have a hard time believing that the fines are that high over speeding in the first place, but one never knows. I laugh at Texas fines, as the highest fine is for no insurance, but that is probably the least cited thing by cops in all of Texas. Ask anyone who has been hit by an uninsured motorist (wife got nailed twice in the past year by such folk). I'm not planning any trips there in Va. in the near future to begin with though. However, I am still wondering or curious about the possible miscommunication in actual fines there. Just seems like more would have been said about it if they were actually that high.
Quote from herwing on July 2, 2007, 7:15 amYep, our General Assembly outdid itself on that one! Believe me, there is plenty of outcry here in VA. But those excessive fines are only supposed to apply to Virginians, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the reason they should be yanked. All of the idiots who blow through here from other states breaking our laws should be the ones hit with those outrageous fines.
gnm109 - We don't mind if you don't come to our wonderful state, but you'll miss some of the best motorcycle roads in the country.
A True Virginian!
Connie
Yep, our General Assembly outdid itself on that one! Believe me, there is plenty of outcry here in VA. But those excessive fines are only supposed to apply to Virginians, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the reason they should be yanked. All of the idiots who blow through here from other states breaking our laws should be the ones hit with those outrageous fines.
gnm109 - We don't mind if you don't come to our wonderful state, but you'll miss some of the best motorcycle roads in the country.
A True Virginian!
Connie
Quote from gnm109 on July 2, 2007, 10:48 amOriginally written by herwing on 7/2/2007 4:15 AM
Yep, our General Assembly outdid itself on that one! Believe me, there is plenty of outcry here in VA. But those excessive fines are only supposed to apply to Virginians, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the reason they should be yanked. All of the idiots who blow through here from other states breaking our laws should be the ones hit with those outrageous fines.
gnm109 - We don't mind if you don't come to our wonderful state, but you'll miss some of the best motorcycle roads in the country.
A True Virginian!
ConnieWell, I may still visit to see the historical sites but I'll make sure that it's on a guided bus tour!
As far as having laws that only apply to some persons, that's per se unconstitutional. It makes the application and understanding of the laws vague and unclear. It promotes unequal application of the law which is prohibited by the Civil Rights laws. Bad, bad, bad. They will get attacked on those grounds.
Originally written by herwing on 7/2/2007 4:15 AM
Yep, our General Assembly outdid itself on that one! Believe me, there is plenty of outcry here in VA. But those excessive fines are only supposed to apply to Virginians, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the reason they should be yanked. All of the idiots who blow through here from other states breaking our laws should be the ones hit with those outrageous fines.
gnm109 - We don't mind if you don't come to our wonderful state, but you'll miss some of the best motorcycle roads in the country.
A True Virginian!
Connie
Well, I may still visit to see the historical sites but I'll make sure that it's on a guided bus tour!
As far as having laws that only apply to some persons, that's per se unconstitutional. It makes the application and understanding of the laws vague and unclear. It promotes unequal application of the law which is prohibited by the Civil Rights laws. Bad, bad, bad. They will get attacked on those grounds.
Quote from Guest on July 2, 2007, 9:27 pmThe new fee schedule went into effect yesterday and applies only to VA residents. Any misdemeanor or felony vehicle ticket now carries with it a "civil penalty" in addition to the regular fines and court fees. The civil penalties range from $300 to $3000 depending on the law broken. Again this additional fine is only charged to Virginians so out of staters don't need to fear driving here any more than usual. The purpose of thses fees is to collect revenues for road repairs/construction. It's not all bad news, the fees are payable in three installments. 1/3 at court, 1/3 within 14 months, the final 1/3 within 26 months of the original date of the offence. Local police are just as confused about the new laws as everyone else, although they just have to write the ticket, the courts will handle the civil penalty.
Personally I think it will be contested as unconstitutional because it doesn't apply to all ticketed drivers, only Virginians.
Turtle
The new fee schedule went into effect yesterday and applies only to VA residents. Any misdemeanor or felony vehicle ticket now carries with it a "civil penalty" in addition to the regular fines and court fees. The civil penalties range from $300 to $3000 depending on the law broken. Again this additional fine is only charged to Virginians so out of staters don't need to fear driving here any more than usual. The purpose of thses fees is to collect revenues for road repairs/construction. It's not all bad news, the fees are payable in three installments. 1/3 at court, 1/3 within 14 months, the final 1/3 within 26 months of the original date of the offence. Local police are just as confused about the new laws as everyone else, although they just have to write the ticket, the courts will handle the civil penalty.
Personally I think it will be contested as unconstitutional because it doesn't apply to all ticketed drivers, only Virginians.
Turtle
Quote from gnm109 on July 2, 2007, 9:38 pmOriginally written by TurtleZ on 7/2/2007 6:27 PM
The new fee schedule went into effect yesterday and applies only to VA residents. Any misdemeanor or felony vehicle ticket now carries with it a "civil penalty" in addition to the regular fines and court fees. The civil penalties range from $300 to $3000 depending on the law broken. Again this additional fine is only charged to Virginians so out of staters don't need to fear driving here any more than usual. The purpose of thses fees is to collect revenues for road repairs/construction. It's not all bad news, the fees are payable in three installments. 1/3 at court, 1/3 within 14 months, the final 1/3 within 26 months of the original date of the offence. Local police are just as confused about the new laws as everyone else, although they just have to write the ticket, the courts will handle the civil penalty.
Personally I think it will be contested as unconstitutional because it doesn't apply to all ticketed drivers, only Virginians.
Turtle
Yep, I agree. It is unequal application of the law on various parties. It goes beyond safety and regulation to a mere money collection scheme. It's full of constitutional holes. Someone will file suit. Like I said earlier, it would be a good case for the ACLU but it doesn't have appeal for them.
It would be a good argument for moving your address across the border to another state.
Originally written by TurtleZ on 7/2/2007 6:27 PM
The new fee schedule went into effect yesterday and applies only to VA residents. Any misdemeanor or felony vehicle ticket now carries with it a "civil penalty" in addition to the regular fines and court fees. The civil penalties range from $300 to $3000 depending on the law broken. Again this additional fine is only charged to Virginians so out of staters don't need to fear driving here any more than usual. The purpose of thses fees is to collect revenues for road repairs/construction. It's not all bad news, the fees are payable in three installments. 1/3 at court, 1/3 within 14 months, the final 1/3 within 26 months of the original date of the offence. Local police are just as confused about the new laws as everyone else, although they just have to write the ticket, the courts will handle the civil penalty.
Personally I think it will be contested as unconstitutional because it doesn't apply to all ticketed drivers, only Virginians.
Turtle
Yep, I agree. It is unequal application of the law on various parties. It goes beyond safety and regulation to a mere money collection scheme. It's full of constitutional holes. Someone will file suit. Like I said earlier, it would be a good case for the ACLU but it doesn't have appeal for them.
It would be a good argument for moving your address across the border to another state.
Quote from Rotten Ralph on July 3, 2007, 8:29 amSince it is very unpopular to even suggest raising taxes, we have entered a new era of user fees, surcharges, fines, and penalties to raise the necessary money for our politicians to spend.
Virginia seems to have taken this "art form" to a higher (albeit unconstitutional)level. I have no doubt that New Jersey will be next.
Since it is very unpopular to even suggest raising taxes, we have entered a new era of user fees, surcharges, fines, and penalties to raise the necessary money for our politicians to spend.
Virginia seems to have taken this "art form" to a higher (albeit unconstitutional)level. I have no doubt that New Jersey will be next.
Quote from gnm109 on July 3, 2007, 9:52 amOriginally written by Rotten Ralph on 7/3/2007 5:29 AM
Since it is very unpopular to even suggest raising taxes, we have entered a new era of user fees, surcharges, fines, and penalties to raise the necessary money for our politicians to spend.
Virginia seems to have taken this "art form" to a higher (albeit unconstitutional)level. I have no doubt that New Jersey will be next.
They have done the same thing in California. In 1978, we passed Proposition 13 which limited taxes on real property to 1.25% of assessed value. Assessed value increases were limitated to a 2% increase per year. This was a Godsend to many older folks who, being on limited income, had no way to pay increased taxes.
Thirty years later, it costs $10 to go to the park, speeding tickets are $300 or so, driving in the Diamond Car Pool Lane is $350, fees and permits on the typical new 1,500 square foot home are now running $40,000. Oh, you want to add a room onto your home? Go pay the "School District Building Fee" to your local district....so much a square foot or you can't do it. All they did is shift fees to other areas so that if you want anything unusual, you pay through the nose.
Also, with the increase of home prices, the 1.25% is not a big deal for government anymore. If you buy a $500,000 home, (average for a new home in Califonia) you will pay about $6,000 in taxes anyway., Welcome to paradise!
Originally written by Rotten Ralph on 7/3/2007 5:29 AM
Since it is very unpopular to even suggest raising taxes, we have entered a new era of user fees, surcharges, fines, and penalties to raise the necessary money for our politicians to spend.
Virginia seems to have taken this "art form" to a higher (albeit unconstitutional)level. I have no doubt that New Jersey will be next.
They have done the same thing in California. In 1978, we passed Proposition 13 which limited taxes on real property to 1.25% of assessed value. Assessed value increases were limitated to a 2% increase per year. This was a Godsend to many older folks who, being on limited income, had no way to pay increased taxes.
Thirty years later, it costs $10 to go to the park, speeding tickets are $300 or so, driving in the Diamond Car Pool Lane is $350, fees and permits on the typical new 1,500 square foot home are now running $40,000. Oh, you want to add a room onto your home? Go pay the "School District Building Fee" to your local district....so much a square foot or you can't do it. All they did is shift fees to other areas so that if you want anything unusual, you pay through the nose.
Also, with the increase of home prices, the 1.25% is not a big deal for government anymore. If you buy a $500,000 home, (average for a new home in Califonia) you will pay about $6,000 in taxes anyway., Welcome to paradise!
Quote from SidecarMike on July 3, 2007, 10:26 amI'll still visit, I just won't speed. :0)
It's kind of like Minnesota not assessing points against your license unless you exceed the limit by 15mph. It basiclly gives the wealthy the right to drive faster than the rest of us.
On the other hand, I wish my state would raise the speeding fines to pay for repairs instead of doing what our Governor does. He robbed the Motor Vehicle, fishing, and hunting and game license fees to pay for road work, then claims they need to raise those fees because there isn't enough money left to pay what they were originally intended for.
At least then you have the option of not paying the excess fees. Just don't speed.
I'll still visit, I just won't speed. :0)
It's kind of like Minnesota not assessing points against your license unless you exceed the limit by 15mph. It basiclly gives the wealthy the right to drive faster than the rest of us.
On the other hand, I wish my state would raise the speeding fines to pay for repairs instead of doing what our Governor does. He robbed the Motor Vehicle, fishing, and hunting and game license fees to pay for road work, then claims they need to raise those fees because there isn't enough money left to pay what they were originally intended for.
At least then you have the option of not paying the excess fees. Just don't speed.
Quote from Guest on July 8, 2007, 9:06 amThe excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue.
Nope... The Constitution says NOTHING about the size of fines. The closest they come is "cruel and unusual punishment"... but traffic fines are a STATES RIGHTS issue; remember THAT phrase? It covers everything that isn't defined in Federal statutes.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
The only time ACLU gets involved is when matters of Constitutional interpretation are involved... and traffic fines ain't it.In any event... I've been fortunate in that I've never had to set foot in VA before. Just remember... Virginia is the state that gave us Jerry Falwell, the man who SWORE that Tinky Winky is a homosexual!!! After that, a $3500 fine for speeding surprises you??? ;o)GAVNO
The excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue.
Nope... The Constitution says NOTHING about the size of fines. The closest they come is "cruel and unusual punishment"... but traffic fines are a STATES RIGHTS issue; remember THAT phrase? It covers everything that isn't defined in Federal statutes.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
The only time ACLU gets involved is when matters of Constitutional interpretation are involved... and traffic fines ain't it.In any event... I've been fortunate in that I've never had to set foot in VA before. Just remember... Virginia is the state that gave us Jerry Falwell, the man who SWORE that Tinky Winky is a homosexual!!! After that, a $3500 fine for speeding surprises you??? ;o)GAVNO
Quote from gnm109 on July 8, 2007, 10:39 amOriginally written by GAVNO on 7/8/2007 6:06 AM
The excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue. gnm109
Nope... The Constitution says NOTHING about the size of fines. The closest they come is "cruel and unusual punishment"... but traffic fines are a STATES RIGHTS issue; remember THAT phrase? It covers everything that isn't defined in Federal statutes.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
The only time ACLU gets involved is when matters of Constitutional interpretation are involved... and traffic fines ain't it.In any event... I've been fortunate in that I've never had to set foot in VA before. Just remember... Virginia is the state that gave us Jerry Falwell, the man who SWORE that Tinky Winky is a homosexual!!! After that, a $3500 fine for speeding surprises you??? ;o)GAVNO
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I was joking about the ACLU. They are not interested in Constitutional issues in any case. They merely want to tear down our country.The issue of fines would not, of course, appear in the Constitution. However, you are forgetting the issue of Case Law which frequently interprets the Constitution, sometimes on a daily basis. For your information and enlightenment, tere is an entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. The citing of these of these cases is beyond the scope of this website but like somone once said "you could look it up".
Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
So I say "nope"to your post.
Originally written by GAVNO on 7/8/2007 6:06 AM
The excessive fines sound to me to almost be a consititutional issue. gnm109
Nope... The Constitution says NOTHING about the size of fines. The closest they come is "cruel and unusual punishment"... but traffic fines are a STATES RIGHTS issue; remember THAT phrase? It covers everything that isn't defined in Federal statutes.
Someone should challenge it. It would be a good case for the ACLU, except they only work for strange and unpopular cases....traffic fines would be too mundane for them.
The only time ACLU gets involved is when matters of Constitutional interpretation are involved... and traffic fines ain't it.In any event... I've been fortunate in that I've never had to set foot in VA before. Just remember... Virginia is the state that gave us Jerry Falwell, the man who SWORE that Tinky Winky is a homosexual!!! After that, a $3500 fine for speeding surprises you??? ;o)GAVNO
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I was joking about the ACLU. They are not interested in Constitutional issues in any case. They merely want to tear down our country.
The issue of fines would not, of course, appear in the Constitution. However, you are forgetting the issue of Case Law which frequently interprets the Constitution, sometimes on a daily basis. For your information and enlightenment, tere is an entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. The citing of these of these cases is beyond the scope of this website but like somone once said "you could look it up".
Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
So I say "nope"to your post.
Quote from SidecarMike on July 8, 2007, 11:13 amOriginally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 8:39 AM
>>> entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. ...Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
Perhaps that's why they limit it to Virginia Residents. It shouldn't then affect interstate commerce.
Originally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 8:39 AM
>>> entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. ...Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
Perhaps that's why they limit it to Virginia Residents. It shouldn't then affect interstate commerce.
Quote from gnm109 on July 8, 2007, 11:26 amOriginally written by SidecarMike on 7/8/2007 8:13 AM
Originally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 8:39 AM
>>> entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. ...Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
Perhaps that's why they limit it to Virginia Residents. It shouldn't then affect interstate commerce.
Yawn, I'm geting bored with this topic....
Originally written by SidecarMike on 7/8/2007 8:13 AM
Originally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 8:39 AM
>>> entire family of Constitutional Cases having to do with interstate commerce and regulation of traffic. ...Traffic fines are not only a states rights issue, either. Insomuch as they affect interstate commerce and are not uniform and not solely for ensuring safety, they are fair game for a constitutional challenge based on case law, but not by the ACLU, heh heh.
Perhaps that's why they limit it to Virginia Residents. It shouldn't then affect interstate commerce.
Yawn, I'm geting bored with this topic....
Quote from Deleted user on July 8, 2007, 12:35 pmOriginally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 9:26 AM
Yawn, I'm geting bored with this topic....
Life in the slow lane talkin' about life in the fast lane...?
Originally written by gnm109 on 7/8/2007 9:26 AM
Yawn, I'm geting bored with this topic....
Life in the slow lane talkin' about life in the fast lane...?
Quote from Guest on July 8, 2007, 1:05 pmLife in the slow lane talkin' about life in the fast lane...?
Yep Tom, probably time to get back to sidecars, no matter which lane you drive in.
Life in the slow lane talkin' about life in the fast lane...?
Yep Tom, probably time to get back to sidecars, no matter which lane you drive in.